The benefits of Multiculturalism in Britain

Originally Posted by DAB

Err... he is in his own country. He lived in Britain his entire life.

Multiculturalism works, and has a number of advantages. The input of new ideas, diversity in the economy, teaches tollarance in the community. All this talk about a Britishness standard is total misguided victorian rhetoric.

I live in a multicultural community. Fifty Percent of the community are the local Welsh speaking population, the rest of us are divided between various groups. We have a significant Israeli population, and a simular sized Palestinian community for that matter. A very large proportion of Muslims and Hindus live in the town, probably just about outnumbering the Chinese Population. And the most recent addition to the community has been an influx of Polish people contracted to rebuild parts of the University.

The key is education. The University is the major employer in the town, pulling in a lot of skills from outside the area. The students make up a fantastic proportion of the population. And thats the point, the key is nothing to do with Britishness, ethnicity or cultural origins. Its to do with education. Most people in Aberystwyth have their 6 GCSE's and 3 A-Levels. They have learnt to think. As a consiquence, we don't collect in ghetos, or keep to our own. When I was a student, I spent two years living with Muslims. That I was Catholic had no bearing on attitudes towards me. The only effect it had was that they kept tempting foods out of the way during Lent, just as I avoided eating in front of them during the day at Rammadan.

Education breeds tolorance. We don't have violence in this town, we don't get the Welsh saying "Saes mynd hafan" (English Go Home), or Aberystwyth for the indiginious Christian population. The alternative is model is the Northern Ireland system, where everyone keeps to their small part of the city. That bred a century of secterian violence and I find it difficult to believe that any British person on these forums would seriously advocate that as the model community.

True British Population!?!? Technically they only exist in North Scotland and Western Wales (and arguably Cornwall). What do you mean by True British?

What a load of crap !

[Kapitan]

True british being the people that were born in england, if your born in england dosnt that make you english regardless if your pearents come from pakistan or india or some where else?

Originally Posted by Kapitan

True british being the people that were born in england, if your born in england dosnt that make you english regardless if your pearents come from pakistan or india or some where else?

In theory. But people who understand what really is going on in our country. Understand that Muslims dont give a Sh*t about our country, only their religion.

Hence why 1,000s of young Mulsims are trying to kill us.

As evident by the recent trial of one scum bag (out of 24 on trial) and the london bomber scum bags.


Police view on Muslim activity in the UK

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5306580.stm

Unfortunately like Dab above.
A lot of people do not understand Islam or its teachings and continue to walk in limbo.
They don’t believe that Mohammed murdered people and had a wife of 9 years old and had black slaves and had an army that went on killing sprees.

So until they do our country will continue to head towards the abyss

[Rockstar]

Just because you are born in country doesn't make you a 'brit'. It's a culture it's a way of life that has been refined over the years. For instance they have a queen, Brits talk funny and depending upon the region it's nothing more than unintelligble gibberish especially when they're pissed, drive on the wrong side of the road, enjoy a higher cost of living than here in the colonies, they can drink you under the table, love to brawl, and have a diet of some the most aweful tasting food ever known to mankind.

Some jerk born in the UK living in such a way that would make mohammed proud is not a Brit.

Thats my narrowminded intolerant view and I'm sticking to it.

[Aguecheek]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Thats my narrowminded intolerant view and I'm sticking to it.

Interesting outsider's perspective on some of British culture. However, there are just a few of points it might be worth raising:

they have a queen

Anyone living in this country as a citizen is automatically a subject of Her Majesty. I believe new immigrants have to take an oath these days anyway.

Brits talk funny and depending upon the region it's nothing more than unintelligble gibberish especially when they're pissed

Brits these days move around a lot. One of my best friends have a strong Wigan accent, another is a Scouser. Both live in the same town now. So, what can be said about them? Well, they do "talk funny" depending on the region they're from. Arguably then, so do any imigrants. They merely talk with the accent they were born to, same as any other brit.

And find me one person who doesn't talk unintelligble gibberish when they're pissed.

drive on the wrong side of the road

Again, find me an immigrant who goes around Britain driving on the right hand side. That is a new one on me! (Incidently, driving on the left is statistically safer as for right handed people it means your strong hand is the one that doesn't leave the wheel... so perhaps it's not the wrong side).

enjoy a higher cost of living than here in the colonies

Any immigrant living here enjoys the same cost of living as anyone else in the country.

they can drink you under the table

Not all of them. One of the most classically "British" men I know is teetotal.

love to brawl

Only football fans. And not even most of them. Are you criticising imigrants for not being violent enough now?!

have a diet of some the most aweful tasting food ever known to mankind.

The nation's favourite dish is actually statistically either chinese or curry...

Some jerk born in the UK living in such a way that would make mohammed proud is not a Brit.

Not even if, whilst obeying the Koran, he respects the Queen, uses the accent of the area he was born in, drives on the left, pays the higher cost of living, is teetotal, eats the national dishes, (actually thinking about this, my local chippy is run by immigrants...) and is proud to believe his is a Brit?

I'm afraid your argument isn't holding water.

[Rockstar]

First off it's not an arguement, my association with brits was when I sailed with them aboard their frigates in the caribbean. Sorry I should have pasted a smiley so you would get it.

Not even if, whilst obeying the Koran, he respects the Queen, uses the accent of the area he was born in, drives on the left, pays the higher cost of living, is teetotal, eats the national dishes, (actually thinking about this, my local chippy is run by immigrants...) and is proud to believe his is a Brit?

However I will argue this, If a so called 'brit' is obeying the Koran he then follows Sunnah, listens to the Haddith and adheres to the doctrine of al-Tariyya . He has no respect for the authority of the Queen, your laws, culture or you. He is not as he may appear.

One who exposes something from our religion is like one who intentionally kills us

You (a muslim) belong to a religion that whosoever conceals it, Allah will honor him and whosoever reveals it, Allah will disgrace him.

Hadith Iman Jafar Sadiq

[DAB]

So, your saying that everyone who follows a religion follows it unerringly to the letter, follows a litterol interpretation of everything that is said and seeks to enact everything that is written?

[STEED]

So he got 40 years big deal that means in the real world 20 years thanks too the CPS recommendations and don't forget time spent in custody resulting in a further reduction in sentence. And a possible appeal.

At the end of the day he's got access to TV and DVD films and a radio and Cd's and all the rest, let us not forget he will not be paying tax.

Yea right British justice, what a joke.

[Aguecheek]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

However I will argue this, If a so called 'brit' is obeying the Koran he then follows Sunnah, listens to the Haddith and adheres to the doctrine of al-Tariyya . He has no respect for the authority of the Queen, your laws, culture or you. He is not as he may appear.

Are you suggesting a white christian brit who, say, commits murder, (not usually considered to be a part of our cultural identity) is also no longer british?

[DAB]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

True british being the people that were born in england, if your born in england dosnt that make you english regardless if your pearents come from pakistan or india or some where else?

So us Welsh and Scots shall does go away shall we. The English were immigrents once as well I would point out. In fact, the welsh word for the English means immigrant.

Originally Posted by Narcosis

What a load of crap !

What a fundermentally grounded debating position you have there.

Originally Posted by Narcosis

n theory. But people who understand what really is going on in our country. Understand that Muslims dont give a Sh*t about our country, only their religion.

Hence why 1,000s of young Mulsims are trying to kill us.

As evident by the recent trial of one scum bag (out of 24 on trial) and the london bomber scum bags.

Lets play a numbers game shall we. The 2001 Census noted there were 1.6m people living in the United Kingdom who identified themselves as belonging to a Muslim denomination. Now the report you've linked too (which doesn't actually say what you want it to say I should add) only says thousends. Odds are he means a figure of say 4,000 - but lets take the theoretical maximum he could mean by that and say MI5 are watching 9,999 muslims. That equates to MI5 monitoring (at the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM) 0.62% of the Muslim population. The figure is likley to be closer to 0.31% - Hardly a fifth column!

Originally Posted by Narcosis

Unfortunately like Dab above.
A lot of people do not understand Islam or its teachings and continue to walk in limbo.
They don’t believe that Mohammed murdered people and had a wife of 9 years old and had black slaves and had an army that went on killing sprees.

So until they do our country will continue to head towards the abyss

Oh, Mohammed killed in the name of his religion, i'm sure. But there again, Pope Julius II famously did the same thing (Popes by the way are Gods representatives on Earth and everything they do is Gods actions), and need I remind you of the traditional Christian method of spreading the faith.

Mohammed had a wife of 9 years? Wasn't that the age of Margaret Beaufort in the 15th century (hint, 500 years after Mohammed) when she married Edmund Tudor (who was close to 40). Certainly Margaret had only just hit 13 when she fell pregnant with the future Henry VII (who by the way Kaptain was Welsh)

Mohammed had black slaves!? Wow, what a revelation, wasn't slavery common in Britain in the 18th century come to think of it. As for raging armies that go on killing sprees. The British Army was accused of that in the 1970's!

I think though I have a good understanding of Islamic Practice, if not its teachings - you can not share a house with muslims for two years and share an office with one without getting to grips with the fundermental philosophies - especially when you both enjoy religious debates.

You can't judge my religion based on Leviticus (and don't tell me no one takes any notice of that book of the bible - Its quoted every other day in Christian debates on Homosexuality etc), so I wont judge anouther religion based on a couple of passages in a book written 1500 years ago.

Get over it, people from anouther society are in your country. We've been dealing with homegrown terrorism in this country for 500 years, and I for one am not going to score an own goal by discriminating against members of my community and driving them into the hands of my enemies.