GW mod and the weapon power.

Sailor Steve · 10-02-06, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

About the "patience":
It is very understandable to wait for the sinking.

But it is not, when you have a handicapped torpedo.

A real G7 torpedo has 280 kilograms of hexogen, which is absolutely able to tear apart a battleship peel (very, very thick indeed).

Actually, a battleship's skin isn't normally any thicker that any other ship's, that is 1/2 to 1 inch. The armor belt is a lot thicker, but torpedoes are meant to go underneath it, and you are right, the armor wouldn't be much protection against a large underwater blast anyway. On the other hand, battleships in WWII were protected by a special system designed to defeat torpedoes, and on the whole it worked pretty well. Yamato took something like 17 torpedoes and 20 bombs to put down.

Quote:

With GW mod you need to use as many torpedoes against a merchant as a battleship.

This is outrageous.

Not really, but sometimes it seems that way. I've had big merchants go down fairly quickly with that damage system, but I've had a lot more take more than I thought was reasonable.

Quote:

Take a look a some historical facts about the most successful patrols:
From: ---> http://uboat.net/ops/top_patrols.htm

Taking in count that a type VII u-boat carry 14 torpedoes and a type IX carry 23; do the math.
Is it possible with GW mod achieve those numbers (showed in the link above mentioned)?
My personal answer is: - I don't think so!

Here I have to ask: are you quoting facts because you are interested in realism, or because in this case they agree with you? By that I mean, will you also argue for a possibility of equalling the least successful patrols? Would you be happy if you had an entire career without sinking one ship? It happened.

On the whole, I agree, but it has also been said that GWX will be trying something completely different. I don't know if it will be better, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Oh, one more thing: you don't need to increase the weapon's power to get the results you want; you just have to replace all the ship files from the 'Sea' and 'Roster' folders with the original stock ones. Then your targets will sink by hit points again.

VON_CAPO · 10-02-06, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Oh, one more thing: you don't need to increase the weapon's power to get the results you want; you just have to replace all the ship files from the 'Sea' and 'Roster' folders with the original stock ones. Then your targets will sink by hit points again.

Excellent. Thank you very much Sailor Steve.
I will try this solution.

By the way, do not get me wrong.

I consider GW mod a superb work.
The passion that Kpt. Lehmann and GW team had put is wonderful.

As I said, and it has been written in the main tittle of this thread, my complain is about the weapons and their effects: frustrating stuff indeed.

I understand that many GW followers use this mod in a unconditional way.
Because they were happy with the old RUB mod (Real U Boat), it is natural to them accept this one without grumble.
This kind of gamers consider that a new level of difficulty is "more realistic". I disagree.
Now, IMHO, it is so realistic, that it is not realistic at all.

In my particular case I scrapped RUB without any doubt, because I had many alternatives.

Today, it is different. GW had integrated so many improvements, and corrected so many bugs, that it is not disposable at all.

I just want a easy way to use this mod as it was "Unreal RUB".

Capt.Crackerjack · 10-02-06, 05:38 PM

VON CAPO, with all due respect, you need to check your math, and refer to the torps required estimates as listed above by CWorth, which agree with my own experience. Using an average of 2 torps per merchant ship (finishing each off with 15-30 DG HE shells, spaced along the waterline, after the escorts leave the area) you will find that the following are typical 1940-42 good patrol results using standard GW1.1a:

Type VII: 14torps/2torps per ship = 7 merchants (your info lists 8 as record)
Type IX: 23torps/2torps per ship = 11.5 merchants (your info lists 14 as record)

These results fit nicely with the historical records you reference and reflect my own patrol experiences. When executed properly, you should be able to pull down 2 (VII) or 3 (IX) merchant ships on every convoy attack set-up run, finishing them as stated above. With skill and some luck, you can often whack the same convoy 2-3 times over a 24-48 hour period, expending all torpedoes! Using this method, I once killed 13 merchants on a single IX blue water patrol with GW1.1a, although 9-11 is more normal. I believe you could even improve that score by harbour raiding.

If this level of realism does not suit you, then as others have stated, you may be better suited to use the children's arcade version of GW, or just the stock SHIII. Better yet, perhaps you could try shooting fish in a barrel? You might really enjoy that!

Ducimus · 10-02-06, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt.Crackerjack

If this level of realism does not suit you, then as others have stated, you may be better suited to use the children's arcade version of GW, or just the stock SHIII. Better yet, perhaps you could try shooting fish in a barrel? You might really enjoy that!

That smacks of a personal jab that's uncalled for.

NeonSamurai · 10-02-06, 06:04 PM

Personaly i found it easier just to increase the torpedo and shell damage and radius effects untill i was getting results that were in my view more realistic.

Unfortunatly with that damage model, some times it is quite realistic, and sometimes it is utterly absurd, especialy with certain ships.

Also i will add that the reports on how many torpedoes it took to sink a particular ship often varry wildly to the actual truth (based on assessing the damage to the ship by diving it). duds and premature explosions being the 2 big ones that can throw it off, especialy as alot of sub and uboat skippers didnt actualy see the shots hit, only heard explosions.

Ducimus · 10-02-06, 06:12 PM

Just FYI, if you take the stock damage model, lower the torpedo damage to like 25 to 30, or 30 to 35, then increase the radius to 7 min, 7 max, ive found that two contact hits, 95% of the time will not result in a sinking. Two magnetic hits under the keel resulted in a sinking 98% of the time. Exception being small ships like a tramp steamer. 1 contact hit did nicely.

10-02-06, 05:38 PM	#3
Capt.Crackerjack Loader Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 84 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	Please Check Your Math, VON CAPO VON CAPO, with all due respect, you need to check your math, and refer to the torps required estimates as listed above by CWorth, which agree with my own experience. Using an average of 2 torps per merchant ship (finishing each off with 15-30 DG HE shells, spaced along the waterline, after the escorts leave the area) you will find that the following are typical 1940-42 good patrol results using standard GW1.1a: Type VII: 14torps/2torps per ship = 7 merchants (your info lists 8 as record) Type IX: 23torps/2torps per ship = 11.5 merchants (your info lists 14 as record) These results fit nicely with the historical records you reference and reflect my own patrol experiences. When executed properly, you should be able to pull down 2 (VII) or 3 (IX) merchant ships on every convoy attack set-up run, finishing them as stated above. With skill and some luck, you can often whack the same convoy 2-3 times over a 24-48 hour period, expending all torpedoes! Using this method, I once killed 13 merchants on a single IX blue water patrol with GW1.1a, although 9-11 is more normal. I believe you could even improve that score by harbour raiding. If this level of realism does not suit you, then as others have stated, you may be better suited to use the children's arcade version of GW, or just the stock SHIII. Better yet, perhaps you could try shooting fish in a barrel? You might really enjoy that!

10-02-06, 06:04 PM	#5
NeonSamurai Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Socialist Republic of Kanadia Posts: 3,044 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Personaly i found it easier just to increase the torpedo and shell damage and radius effects untill i was getting results that were in my view more realistic. Unfortunatly with that damage model, some times it is quite realistic, and sometimes it is utterly absurd, especialy with certain ships. Also i will add that the reports on how many torpedoes it took to sink a particular ship often varry wildly to the actual truth (based on assessing the damage to the ship by diving it). duds and premature explosions being the 2 big ones that can throw it off, especialy as alot of sub and uboat skippers didnt actualy see the shots hit, only heard explosions. __________________ SH3 Newbie Guide Links and other helpfull stuff

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10-02-06, 06:12 PM	#6
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Just FYI, if you take the stock damage model, lower the torpedo damage to like 25 to 30, or 30 to 35, then increase the radius to 7 min, 7 max, ive found that two contact hits, 95% of the time will not result in a sinking. Two magnetic hits under the keel resulted in a sinking 98% of the time. Exception being small ships like a tramp steamer. 1 contact hit did nicely.