A Letter To The Palestinians From New Zealand:

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

Read those parts in the Quran about living with the "peoples of the Book".

Ouch - please, better don't! The author does not seem to know the quran's regulations for living with the people of the book too well. It's a regulation between masters (Muhammedans) and servants (Jews, Christians), generous only as long as the servants are obedient, and submissive.The letter may be well intended, and is arguing quote reasonably, but the writer is a little misled about Islam's drives and immense motivational power. He is wondering for the same reasons why European intellectuals and bureaucrats are wondering why their oh so reasonable solutions do not work.So, here we have an echo that will fade unheared.

[kiwi_2005]

Im not questioning whether the author is right or wrong, i just thought it was a good read. His letter shows how most of us New Zealanders feel about the war going on between Palenstine and Isreal.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

His letter shows how most of us New Zealanders feel about the war going on between Palenstine and Isreal.

So, our Mossad agents can come back and spy on - um - er - hmmm - ..................

Say! What is there to spy on in NZ anyway? :hmm:

[kiwi_2005]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

So, our Mossad agents can come back and spy on - um - er - hmmm - ..................

Say! What is there to spy on in NZ anyway? :hmm:

Maoris or either want to check out our cannibis patches
Because we live on the bottom of the planet with really no enemies - nations become paraniod. Them kiwis what they up too. Hmmm

[bookworm_020]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

So, our Mossad agents can come back and spy on - um - er - hmmm - ..................

Say! What is there to spy on in NZ anyway? :hmm:

I'm not sure, Most New Zealanders live in Bondi, Australia

Maybe there looking for hobits:rotfl:

[Immacolata]

Don't forget who started this mess. The meddling British Empire. If they hadn't conceded Transjordan to the newly founded UN, I doubt the screwball idea to divide the country into four separated regions and hope everybody would just get along and have afternoon tea with each other (just one sugar ta very much), would never have been made.

Unfortunately, there has gone Corsican Goat Family Feud in it. Nobody really remembers which goat was stolen by whom, and when, or why. But generations after that swear by their father's or son's graves that the evil other must pay the price for this insult. And so the battle for Israel carries on with seemingly unrelented strength after nearly 60 years. The measures taken escalates, more people die, and more and more sons swear by their father's graves that this injustice shall be revenged with even more injustice. I wonder for how many centuries this problem will exist.

I also wonder why palestinians are living in refugee camps for nearly 60 years. Do they want to stay there? Or is the problem that their "brothers" in other countries are quick on the rhetoric and condemnation, but when it comes to actual housing said brotehrs, they suddenly can't find the space for it?

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by Immacolata

I also wonder why palestinians are living in refugee camps for nearly 60 years. Do they want to stay there? Or is the problem that their "brothers" in other countries are quick on the rhetoric and condemnation, but when it comes to actual housing said brotehrs, they suddenly can't find the space for it?

It is my rough understanding that at one time they did have a home in Jordan (as refugees maybe? I'm not entirely sure; my history lessons for that era were over a decade ago now), until they tried to overthrow the king and governement with a military coup. The king (Hussain?), quite understandably, got really pissed off at this and ordered thre jordanian army, or what was loyal and left of it, to explell the whole lot of them from his country. Hence all the displaced palestinian multitudes.
If this has any truth to it then it's no wonder none of the other Arab states don't want to pay anything more than 'lip-service' to the displaced palestinians and their tradition of causing trouble wherever they go.

[The Avon Lady]

Jumpy, none of what you think is what happened.

Jordan itself is some 70% Palestinian. Jordanian Palestinians include those that existed in TransJordan proper (east of the Jordan River) and in the West Bank, which Jordan claimed for itself after the war in 1948, against international approval. All of those Arabs have or were entitled to Jordanian citizenship.

Any Arab that left Israel's 1948 borders was kept in refugee camps by Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon.

These camps were the most disgusting things you've ever seen and remain so till this day.

These Arabs are denied citizenship by their hosting brothers.

Your reference to King Hussein sounds like a reference to Black September, when Jordanian forced massacred - and justifiably so - thousands of Palestinians who, under the leadership of Arafat, were planning on overpowering Hussein's monarchy, phony as it still is.

[jumpy]

well, I did say my history was a bit rough

[Immacolata]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Jumpy, none of what you think is what happened.
Any Arab that left Israel's 1948 borders was kept in refugee camps by Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon.

These camps were the most disgusting things you've ever seen and remain so till this day.

These Arabs are denied citizenship by their hosting brothers.

Your reference to King Hussein sounds like a reference to Black September, when Jordanian forced massacred - and justifiably so - thousands of Palestinians who, under the leadership of Arafat, were planning on overpowering Hussein's monarchy, phony as it still is.

Yes I thought something like that was the case. I did a paper on the six day war between Israel and Egypt. I received transcriptions from the israeali embassy that was made by Nasrs radio speeches in Egypt. and he spared not on the expensive words. There was no ends to the many ways he would make sure that the zionists would be removed. We all know what happened, however. Israel mobilized when he kept thundering about war, and he got his nose bloodied. I wonder if he ever really DID want a war, of if it was a charade. Seeing as the egypt air force got caught with their knickers down, apparantly not.

The case of israel and the palestinians plight was a political tool for Nasr nothing more. Too bad it was a blowtorch and he held it wrong, nozzle facing him. I think it still is a tool today. A nice "Quick, look, its a 3 headed monkey" diversion when social unrest threatens the home front.

Had the neighbouring countries actually assimilated the refugees, perhaps there would not have been so much hostility. Probably still some, but at least the palestinian refugee's situation would have been less precarious.

[Bezoomney]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Your reference to King Hussein sounds like a reference to Black September, when Jordanian forced massacred - and justifiably so - thousands of Palestinians who, under the leadership of Arafat, were planning on overpowering Hussein's monarchy, phony as it still is.

Justifiably so?

So in your mind it is possible to justify murdering thousands of people?

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Bezoomney

Justifiably so?

So in your mind it is possible to justify murdering thousands of people?

It is justifiable to put down a revolt initiated by butchers and thugs seeking to overthrow the government. To the best of my knowledge, the vast majority of those killed, in some very ugly urban warfare, were terrorists.

Why don't you ask about how many people Arafat and his animals killed in Jordan up to then, including the attempts on Hussein himself? I won't bother pestering you with how many Israelis they killed up to that point.

[Immacolata]

Originally Posted by Bezoomney

Justifiably so?

So in your mind it is possible to justify murdering thousands of people?

Really depends on the situation, doesn't it? As father Stalin said. Death solves all problems: no man, no problem. Just make sure you kill the right man, of course. Did the slaughter in Jordan solve the problem? Yes. Of course the palestinian problem is still there, but the king of Jordan did not loose his throne. Did killing the german soldiers and occupying Berlin solve the problem? Yes. The German forces no longer attacked Russia.

Did attacking Iraq solve the terrorism problem? Not at all, in fact, I think it made it much worse. So there's justification all right. If you are sufficiently cynical like ole man Stalin, your justification lies in whether or not the murdering resolves your problem.