No S-Class?

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Hey I like Vanila!

[Rab09]

In the fall of 1941, Subs based out of Manila Bay were; siw S-class, seven P-class and tweleve Salmons. No Tambor class boats at all. While in Pearl Harbor there were; six old V-boats, three P-boats and six of the new Tambor class boats. The V-boats played an important roll through out the war and S-boats were used through all of 1942.
To only include the boats from Tambor class forword is not acording to history.

[ricnunes]

Yes, I must admit that reading that no S-class subs were to be included in SH4 and that you always start from Pearl Harbour was very disapointing to me! I really loved starting from the Phillippines with an S-class sub when playing the SH1 campaign.

[bigboywooly]

They are not even gonna include any Dutch\Brit or Jap subs either
You would have liked to think they have learnt something by now
Even if they werent playable but it would have been nice to play for different nations

Originally Posted by ricnunes

Yes, I must admit that reading that no S-class subs were to be included in SH4 and that you always start from Pearl Harbour was very disapointing to me! I really loved starting from the Phillippines with an S-class sub when playing the SH1 campaign.

It said that the war STARTS with Pearl Harbour, timewise. But it didn´t say that Pearl Harbour had to be the starting location.

From the SubSim interview:

Michael Patton, 53, US: Are you going to start the war prior to Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor & is Pearl Harbor going to be an operating submarine base?

SH4 Dev Team: The war will always start with Pearl Harbor, we can’t change that. And so will our campaign. The full list of bases to be included as starting points for player’s campaign sorties is not decided yet.

-------

Considering the amount of work it is to build 3d interiors its not surprising they had to draw the line somewere. We had 3 diffrent interiors in SH3, now we get 4 from the looks of it, and people still complain.....

[Safe-Keeper]

They are not even gonna include any Dutch\Brit or Jap subs either
You would have liked to think they have learnt something by now

They only have so much time, money, and effort.

They could either include the variety of US subs they included and no foreign subs, or they could include only one and two US subs and several foreign subs - in which case there'd be people whining about the lack of playable American submarines.

It's the rock and a hard place for them - they knew they'd get people mad at them either way - but I think they made the right decision. And think about it, instead of making the modders add new US subs with interiors and everything, they "only" have to add foreign subs, which requires less effort as there's no 3D interior or anything to add.

[bigboywooly]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

They only have so much time, money, and effort.

They could either include the variety of US subs they included and no foreign subs, or they could include only one and two US subs and several foreign subs - in which case there'd be people whining about the lack of playable American submarines.

It's the rock and a hard place for them - they knew they'd get people mad at them either way - but I think they made the right decision. And think about it, instead of making the modders add new US subs with interiors and everything, they "only" have to add foreign subs, which requires less effort as there's no 3D interior or anything to add.

But they are not even adding any AI subs from any nation either

Besides time is not a factor
We would all wait longer for the right game rather than have half a game earlier

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

But they are not even adding any AI subs from any nation either

Besides time is not a factor
We would all wait longer for the right game rather than have half a game earlier

"Us" waiting isn't the time problem. Them having to pay bills, and needing the game to help pay them, is.

[ricnunes]

Originally Posted by Jotte

It said that the war STARTS with Pearl Harbour, timewise. But it didn´t say that Pearl Harbour had to be the starting location.

From the SubSim interview:

Michael Patton, 53, US: Are you going to start the war prior to Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor & is Pearl Harbor going to be an operating submarine base?

SH4 Dev Team: The war will always start with Pearl Harbor, we can’t change that. And so will our campaign. The full list of bases to be included as starting points for player’s campaign sorties is not decided yet.

-------

Considering the amount of work it is to build 3d interiors its not surprising they had to draw the line somewere. We had 3 diffrent interiors in SH3, now we get 4 from the looks of it, and people still complain.....

Guess, I misread the interview. Thanks for clearing up my doubts about the starting bases!

Nevertheless I hope that they don't forget the Phillippines sub base and I also hope they'll add the S-Class sub since it's an essencial sub if the Phillippines sub bases is to be added into the game.

Regading the number of submarines, first I'm not complaining I'm only requesting that the most important US subs of the WWII Pacific be included and thing that now that you mention happens in SH3! In SH3 you have ALL the most important German Subs (Type II, Type VII, Type IX and Type XXI, which in total are 4 main sub types) so what I ask here is that in SH4 the most importat US sub be added too and these most important US subs are (I believe most here agree) all the mentioned in the interview plus the S-Class (the one that I request here) and the Balao (the most important US sub of the later part of the war).

[Rab09]

If you take away the S-boats, P-boats, V-boats, you take away the first year of the war!! It wasn't till end of 1942 that you had any Tambor class boats in numbers and theses were split between Pearl Harbor and Australia (Darwin in early '42, Brisbane and Fremantle mid to late '42). Without these boats you also would not be able to Historicaly defend the Philippines, Java, Wake Island, Midway, The Battle of Lingayen Gulf, Battle of the Coral Sea. Seems like there will be alot of early war action that will not be historicaly correct, which would be a shame!!

Originally Posted by Rab09

If you take away the S-boats, P-boats, V-boats, you take away the first year of the war!!

I agree, but I'm confused on one thing you've said twice now: what is a V-boat?

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by ricnunes

Yes, I must admit that reading that no S-class subs were to be included in SH4 and that you always start from Pearl Harbour was very disapointing to me! I really loved starting from the Phillippines with an S-class sub when playing the SH1 campaign.

Ditto My favorite sub stories are the S-38 in Lingayen Gulf, Dec 22, 1941 and the S-44 sinking the Kako.

[Steeltrap]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Ditto My favorite sub stories are the S-38 in Lingayen Gulf, Dec 22, 1941 and the S-44 sinking the Kako.

People should actually READ the interview material....it's hard enough for developers when people don't like what they've actually said without having people inventing stuff!

It says the WAR starts in Pearl Harbour (not exactly a big surprise) and that they are yet to decide the bases available from which to conduct operations. So I don't know why people think they have to start in Pearl and that the other bases won't be included.....:hmm:

At a guess, you'd think Pearl, Midway and Brisbane will be in at least (Wahoo did a patrol from Pearl to Brisbane then another from Brisbane to Midway in '42, for example). I suppose Manilla should really be there, but then it wasn't available for all that long....

[ricnunes]

Yes, I misread the part of the starting bases and I admited that in the other thread but aparently from reading the interview there will not be an S-Class in SH4 which is I must say a very large fault in SH4 (it's like not having a TypeII U-Boat in SH3).
But since we are still months away from the SH4 there is still time for the devs to include the S-class in SH4 and the best way for this to happen is to post threads like this in these forums in order to show the devs how important (and I dare to say VITAL) is to have the S-Class sub in SH4!

My 2 cents...

[Torgen]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Ditto My favorite sub stories are the S-38 in Lingayen Gulf, Dec 22, 1941 and the S-44 sinking the Kako.

In my PTO sub games, I always start in Manila and try to get to the Philippine landing beaches before the Japs can! I did it once in Silent Service, and got trapped in the bay! They were kinda pissed that I hit two transports.

That's probably my biggest wish- a dynamic campaign where, if we get in the right place at the right time, we score the jackpot! Like, maybe I get my S boat to Lingayen Gulf before the invasion fleet, or catch Shokaku on her return from striking Java. I loved leafing through my two volume set of "Silent Victory" to figure out where the nearest "big catch" was in my area on my patrol date.