US Politics Thread 2021-24

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Well, just an FYI the Carter giving away the Canal comes from four sources, Article II of the Constitution and the information provided by the Department of State and Office of the Historian and me because I was living there. All four place Carter at the head of that decision.
...

From the above, one would think you actually had verifiable sources to back up your claims; but you have a very well known aversion to (and derision of) links to substantiate claims; but, I think, your lack of substantiating links is not due to any aversion to links in general but, rather, to an aversion to the fact that the claims you made above aren't really true...

Let's look at you 'four sources":

1. Dealing with you as a source, I can say I wouldn't buy a used car from you...


2. Article II of the US Constitution: Somehow, I can't find anything in the text of the Article 11 any reference specially naming Carter as 'giving away' the Panama Canal; maybe you are trying to say Carter violated the provisions of Article 11 in the process of making the Canal Treaty; however, it seems all his actions were in line with and in conformity with the provisions of Article 11; if you have any real evidence of Carter violating Article 11, please be forthcoming; and it would be appreciated if you would kindly provide links to back up you claim...


3 & "4". I had to combine these two "sources" because, oddly, they are one and the same; the Office of the Historian is of the State Department; either your math sucks and there are only three (3) distinct "sources" in your claim or you were trying to pad your claim hoping no one would check you on them (surprise!); when I did check this so-called source, I realized why you didn't bother (or want to) supply a link; so for every one else, here's the link:


The Panama Canal and the Torrijos-Carter Treaties --

https://history.state.gov/milestones...0/panama-canal


Now, according to your claim, this source would also back up your claim of Carter 'giving away' the Canal; well, lets see...what, exactly, is the opening line of the Office of the Historian's article on the Carter treaty efforts...?...

One of President Jimmy CarterÂ’s greatest accomplishments was negotiating the Torrijos-Carter Treaties, which were ratified by the U.S. Senate in 1978.

Wow, the Historian really let Carter have it for 'giving away' the Canal, didn't he/she?...


So, got any more good "sources"...


The actual history of the Canal and the eventual Treaty goes back far before Carter was in office; the efforts to reach an equitable agreement on the Canal began almost as soon as the US signed their first agreement with the Panamanian government in 1903, in the decades since, over the terms of several Presidents before Carter, the US and Panama have tried to hash out the situation; it all came to head in 1963 when Panama became independent of the nation of Colombia and began to assert its own sovereignty; in 1964, the US agreed to let the Panamanian flag to be flown alongside the US flag on the Canal grounds, but a subsequent violent clash caused by US citizens on the Canal led to the Panamanian government breaking off ties with the US; this was a very serious diplomatic black eye for the US and, given the ongoing Cold War with the USSR, gave the Russians plenty of fuel for their propaganda and recruiting efforts; this led to the US seeking, via a new treaty, to reset the terms of the Canal ownership so as to mitigate the impression of a much larger nation, the US, bullying a much smaller nation, Panama; what started in the LBJ administration became the set policy of the US regarding Panama and the Canal; Presidents from both parties and Senate and House leaders from both parties worked to achieve a new treaty; by the time the issue fell into Carter's lap, the issue was pretty much decided and all Carter did was to follow precedent and US policy in reaching a new treaty; he followed all the requirements laid out in the Constitution and presented the Treaty to the Congress for ratification, which was accomplished in 1977...


Here is an article, by someone who was there, as you say, giving some background on the Treaty and the activities surrounding its passage and ratification...


The Panama Canal Treaties were CarterÂ’s biggest foreign policy win --

https://penncapital-star.com/comment...ruce-ledewitz/


Well, at least we now know why you really don't like links..



<O>

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by vienna

From the above, one would think you actually had verifiable sources to back up your claims; but you have a very well known aversion to (and derision of) links to substantiate claims; but, I think, your lack of substantiating links is not due to any aversion to links in general but, rather, to an aversion to the fact that the claims you made above aren't really true...

Let's look at you 'four sources":

1. Dealing with you as a source, I can say I wouldn't buy a used car from you...


2. Article II of the US Constitution: Somehow, I can't find anything in the text of the Article 11 any reference specially naming Carter as 'giving away' the Panama Canal; maybe you are trying to say Carter violated the provisions of Article 11 in the process of making the Canal Treaty; however, it seems all his actions were in line with and in conformity with the provisions of Article 11; if you have any real evidence of Carter violating Article 11, please be forthcoming; and it would be appreciated if you would kindly provide links to back up you claim...


3 & "4". I had to combine these two "sources" because, oddly, they are one and the same; the Office of the Historian is of the State Department; either your math sucks and there are only three (3) distinct "sources" in your claim or you were trying to pad your claim hoping no one would check you on them (surprise!); when I did check this so-called source, I realized why you did bother (or want to) supply a link; so for every one else, here's the link:


The Panama Canal and the Torrijos-Carter Treaties --

https://history.state.gov/milestones...0/panama-canal


Now, according to your claim, this source would also back up your claim of Carter 'giving away' the Canal; well, lets see...what, exactly, is the opening line of the Office of the Historian's article on the Carter treaty efforts...?...





Wow, the Historian really let Carter have it for 'giving away' the Canal, didn't he/she?...


So, got any more good "sources"...


The actual history of the Canal and the eventual Treaty goes back far before Carter was in office; the efforts to reach an equitable agreement on the Canal began almost as soon as the US signed their first agreement with the Panamanian government in 1903, in the decades since, over the terms of several Presidents before Carter, the US and Panama have tried to hash out the situation; it all came to head in 1963 when Panama became independent of the nation of Colombia and began to assert its own sovereignty; in 1964, the US agreed to let the Panamanian flag to be flown alongside the US flag on the Canal grounds, but a subsequent violent clash caused by US citizens on the Canal led to the Panamanian government breaking off ties with the US; this was a very serious diplomatic black eye for the US and, given the ongoing Cold War with the USSR, gave the Russians plenty of fuel for their propaganda and recruiting efforts; this led to the US seeking, via a new treaty, to reset the terms of the Canal ownership so as to mitigate the impression of a much larger nation, the US, bullying a much smaller nation, Panama; what started in the LBJ administration became the set policy of the US regarding Panama and the Canal; Presidents from both parties and Senate and House leaders from both parties worked to achieve a new treaty; by the time the issue fell into Carter's lap, the issue was pretty much decided and all Carter did was to follow precedent and US policy in reaching a new treaty; he followed all the requirements laid out in the Constitution and presented the Treaty to the Congress for ratification, which was accomplished in 1977...


Here is an article, by someone who was there, as you say, giving some background on the Treaty and the activities surrounding its passage and ratification...


The Panama Canal Treaties were CarterÂ’s biggest foreign policy win --


https://penncapital-star.com/comment...ruce-ledewitz/


Well, at least we now know why you really don't like links..



<O>

So some say Carter’s biggest foreign policy win was when he gave away the Panama Canal Zone. Ok but my argument was Carter was the one that gave away the Canal Zone.and not everyone, including me, liked it.

Links don’t seem to matter anyway I post two sources one quoting FEMA director Mayorkas and one from FEMAs own website detailing around half the annual budget went to shelters and assistance to non citizen migrants released into general population.

And you still managed to declare it a Trump lie in the first sentence of reply.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

“The Trump lie”

Jesus H Christ what planet you on? Mayorkas the guy in charge of FEMA is the one that publicly stated FEMA may run out of money before this hurricane season is over. FEMAÂ’s own data tells where the money was distributed
here: https://www.fema.gov/grants/shelter-services-program Over half of the annual budget went towards the benefit of non-citizen migrants.

...and now we have the ongoing Rockstar Big Lie(s)...


...however, this time, you actually supplied links to 'back up' your claims:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

What an arrogant uninformed stupid statement. Please do enlighten us about this outright lie you see from your high horse in Europe.



Your worthless socialist neo nazi parties are in a league of their own and your problem so go cry about in the German politics thread. Nobody here in the U.S. cares.

You two should know it was Mayorkas from the Biden administration who said FEMA was running out of money because much of it is spent on SSP migrant assistance & housing,

https://www.fema.gov/grants/shelter-services-program

https://apnews.com/article/hurricane...6830410cf2c1cb

...

]

Well, let's do a fact check on your " arrogant uninformed stupid statement", shall we...?...

On your first link, thete is absolutely nothing in the text even remotely quoting Mayorkas as stating FEMA funds for Hurricane Helene were diverted to immigrant spending; as has been explicitly said before, funding for FEMA and funding for immigrants are separate and non-comingling (and, again, the only person to raid FEMA, illegally, funds was Trump; maybe that's why he only had paper towels to distribute in Puerto Rico after their hurricane ); so, please show us where in the cite you made is anything backing up you claim?...


As for your second bit of "proof", here is the text of the entire AP article:

Mayorkas warns FEMA doesnÂ’t have enough funding to last through hurricane season

By KEVIN FREKING and COLLEEN LONG

Updated 3:39 PM PDT, October 2, 2024


WASHINGTON (AP) — The Federal Emergency Management Agency can meet immediate needs but does not have enough funding to make it through the hurricane season, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas told reporters Wednesday.

The agency is being stretched as it works with states to assess damage from Hurricane Helene and delivers meals, water, generators and other critical supplies. The storm struck Florida last week, then plowed through several states in the Southeast, flooding towns and killing more than 160 people.

Mayorkas was not specific about how much additional money the agency may need, but his remarks on Air Force One underscored concerns voiced by President Joe Biden and some lawmakers earlier this week that Congress may need to pass a supplemental spending bill this fall to help states with recovery efforts.

“We are meeting the immediate needs with the money that we have. We are expecting another hurricane hitting,” Mayorkas said. “FEMA does not have the funds to make it through the season.”

Hurricane season runs June 1 to Nov. 30, but most hurricanes typically occur in September and October.

Congress recently replenished a key source of FEMAÂ’s response efforts, providing $20 billion for the agencyÂ’s disaster relief fund as part of a short-term government spending bill to fund the government through Dec. 20. The bill also gave FEMA flexibility to draw on the money more quickly as needed.

Both chambers of Congress are scheduled, however, to be in their home states and districts until after the election, as lawmakers focus on campaigning.

House Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., gave no hint he was considering changing that schedule during a speech Tuesday. He said that Congress just provided FEMA with the funds it needs to respond and that lawmakers would make sure those resources are appropriately allocated.

A bipartisan group of Senators from affected states wrote their leadership this week saying itÂ’s clear Congress must act to meet constituentsÂ’ needs. They said that may even require Congress to come back in October, ahead of the election.

Mayorkas made his comments as Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris fanned out across the Southeast to witness the damage from the hurricane and seek to demonstrate commitment and competence in helping devastated communities. Biden is heading to North and South Carolina, while Harris is going to Georgia.

More than 150,000 households have registered for assistance with FEMA, and that number is expected to rise rapidly in the coming days, said Frank Matranga, an agency representative.

The devastation was especially severe in the Blue Ridge Mountains, where at least 57 people died in and around Asheville, North Carolina, a tourism haven known for its art galleries, breweries and outdoor activities.

“Communities were wiped off the map,” North Carolina’s governor, Roy Cooper, said at a news conference Tuesday.

Again, in the above article, there is no mention, at all, of Mayorkas saying FEMA funds were diverted to immigrants; maybe you are seeing something there the rest of us are not; maybe you are just making things up like the Great Orange Liar-In-Chief...


The strain FEMA finds itself under is much more to do with the increasing severity of natural disasters in recent years that to any alleged divergence of funds or anything of that source; funds are budgeted on projections, but the severity of the natural disasters in recent years has far outstripped the projections; and, there is also the inept leadership of the GOP-controlled House of Representatives and their inability to stop squabbling amongst themselves and pass a comprehensive, long-term spending bill; Mayorkas works with the funds Congress gives his agency and the onus for the failure to adequately provide falls on the House...


Before you go off on others in this thread for being foreigners or try to call others liars, even when they actually post verifiable information, perhaps you should do some things like, oh I don't know, maybe learn to actually read what you cite, provide actually, factual links to support you contentions, try using some civility towards the other members in this thread, and, maybe, learn to tell the truth...

Oh, and before you resort to your usual kneejerk reaction along the lines of 'Well, you're being uncivil to me', believe me, I don't really like to have to make posts like this and they wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for those like you who feel bluster and prevarication is a substitute for civility and honesty...



<O>

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

So some say Carter’s biggest foreign policy win was when he gave away the Panama Canal Zone. Ok but my argument was Carter was the one that gave away the Canal Zone.and not everyone, including me, liked it.

Links don’t seem to matter anyway I post two sources one quoting FEMA director Mayorkas and one from FEMAs own website detailing around half the annual budget went to shelters and assistance to non citizen migrants released into general population.

And you still managed to declare it a Trump lie in the first sentence of reply.

You posted this while I was still composing my previous reply...

Still want to stand by you "links don't matter anyway" stance now...?...



<O>

[Jimbuna]

US debt would increase under Harris and soar under Trump - study

Donald Trump's campaign proposals would increase the US national debt by double the amount Kamala Harris's would, according to a new analysis by a non-partisan group.

Both candidates would add trillions to the national debt if their campaign pledges were enacted, according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, external. Trump would add $7.5tn and Harris would add $3.5tn, the group said.

The think tank warned on Monday that neither party appeared willing to address the country's growing $35.6tn debt.

Both candidates have, at least partially, backed extending major tax cuts that the US passed during Trump's first term. These cuts form the biggest chunk of this hypothetical additional debt.

Parts of that Trump tax plan are due to expire in 2025, setting up a tough tax fight for whoever wins the White House in November. Trump has vowed to extend the tax package in its entirety.

He has also proposed new cuts which would eliminate taxes on overtime, social security and tips income, and grant domestic manufacturers an ultra low corporate rate of 15%.

He said he plans to raise money by imposing widespread tariffs - a tax on goods imported into the country, which could raise $2.7tn, according to the CRFB.

Harris, by contrast, has pledged to roll back tax cuts for the wealthy and raise the 21% rate for corporations, which was meant to be permanent, to 28%.

But she would extend the Trump cuts for Americans earning less than $400,000 and has backed his idea of eliminating taxes on tips.

Harris has also put forward a number of other proposals for tax relief, aimed at families with children and start-ups, while endorsing plans to subsidise child care and health care with hundreds of billions in new spending.

Many of their proposals would have to be approved by Congress, and it remains unclear how much either candidate would be able to muscle through the divided legislative branch which has ultimate power over taxes and spending.

"Both candidates are wanting to get elected so, you know, tax cuts sound better than higher taxes so I think that's what you're hearing. Whether or not all of that gets through we'll see," said Jimmy Lee, the founder and CEO of the investment firm Wealth Consulting Group.

But Mr Lee said he thought investors were not "paying enough attention" to the threat from spiralling borrowing.

The US has long been able to borrow cheaply, thanks to strong demand for its debt among private investors, which has helped to keep interest rates relatively low.

But some analysts have warned that the US may be facing higher costs in the future.

The ratio of US debt to its economy or GDP, gross domestic product is already one of the highest among major economies in the world.

It stands at about 120%, according to the IMF. That compares to 144% in Italy, 110% in Spain, 101% in the UK, 106% in Canada, 77% in China, 67% in Germany and 56% in Australia.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce81g9593dro

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

US debt would increase under Harris and soar under Trump - study

Every administration increases the national debt. IMO, with Harris's free money for everything she is offering for votes, will run it up even more. She is already going after capital gains unrealized. Yet, capital gains lost unrealized we the investor are on our own.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...rce=reddit.com

Even if the above were proved absolutely true, it won't move the needle at all on his cult members. It's absolutely insane that this election is close at all.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Every administration increases the national debt. IMO, with Harris's free money for everything she is offering for votes, will run it up even more. She is already going after capital gains unrealized. Yet, capital gains lost unrealized we the investor are on our own.

And what is the threshold of that tax kicking in? Are you at or above that threshold?

I must confess, i don't understand why some of you people write such long responses. I don't think this particular corner of the internet would have paid shills, so I wonder why.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

And what is the threshold of that tax kicking in? Are you at or above that threshold?

Bud, if you think she will stop at a threshold you got another thing coming. The middle class is the real ATM money machine for the government. Also, Trumps tax plan from 2017 is done in 2025. I don't know about you but I brought more money home weekly with this plan. In short, I did not give the government a free loan of $4000 overpaid taxes and returned after filing for the year. This tax plan of Trumps is about to go away.

Back to the stock market and 401K, etc. We the investors assume ALL of the risk. The government assume NONE of the risk but taxes all the same. She will want more of your capital gains. Yet will not share in the loses. And to that, rich people got rich because they are smart with money. They will find a way around her unrealized capital gains tax. They have the means.

Harris best interest in not you or me.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...rce=reddit.com

Even if the above were proved absolutely true, it won't move the needle at all on his cult members. It's absolutely insane that this election is close at all.

I secretly sent my free covid test to the landfill. Got sick, never went to the doctor or wore a mask and kept working.

[Rockstar]

Obviously this more fake news, everyone knows we don’t have military personnel in combat zones

Rocket attack launched against U.S. soldiers at the Conoco military base in Syria.

[mapuc]

Funds or no funds for FEMA, the Hurricane Milton is expected to be the worse in 100 years. If this should be correct, then there will be a lot of job for the FEMA people after Milton.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Funds or no funds for FEMA, the Hurricane Milton is expected to be the worse in 100 years. If this should be correct, then there will be a lot of job for the FEMA people after Milton.

Markus

Thats not how it works. The governor of the state organizes the response which may include asking for federal assistance. Even if requested the federal government does not just walk-in and take over.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Thats not how it works. The governor of the state organizes the response which may include asking for federal assistance. Even if requested the federal government does not just walk-in and take over.

You're right I stand corrected.

I think the governor of Florida will put Florida in a state of emergency before Milton enten the land.

The Met was wrong they said it would go down to grade 4 and it did, then it should go down to 3, but instead it has gone up to a 5 again.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

You're right I stand corrected.

I think the governor of Florida will put Florida in a state of emergency before Milton enten the land.

The Met was wrong they said it would go down to grade 4 and it did, then it should go down to 3, but instead it has gone up to a 5 again.

Markus

He did already a few days ago, and I evacuated to Tallahassee. The vast majority of the response is already staged. Linemen, lumberjacks, police, ambulances, fire trucks, search and rescue it’s all ready to go to work once it’s safe. I can also guarantee you, people here have a helluva lot more on their mind than the election season political hay over FEMA funding, Like if our homes will still be there when we get back, IF we can get back.

FEMA funding is I think mostly reimbursement of money the State has already spent on response, rebuilding and individual grants. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not say what FEMA does isn’t important, it is, especially those on the ground but their participation personnel wise is fairly small compared to all the thousands of people, private companies, national guard and other organizations actively involved.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

He did already a few days ago, and I evacuated to Tallahassee. The vast majority of the response is already staged. Linemen, lumberjacks, police, ambulances, fire trucks, search and rescue it’s all ready to go to work once it’s safe. I can also guarantee you, people here have a helluva lot more on their mind than the election season political hay over FEMA funding, Like if our homes will still be there when we get back, IF we can get back.

FEMA funding is I think mostly reimbursement of money the State has already spent on response, rebuilding and individual grants. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not say what FEMA does isn’t important, it is, especially those on the ground but their participation personnel wise is fairly small compared to all the thousands of people, private companies, national guard and other organizations actively involved.

DeSantis is on top of it. There was a build up in place from Helene. Not to mention Homestead FL is FL warehouse of relief supplies. I understand DeSantis has not taken any calls from Harris. Good for him. She is just doing PR for herself. FEMA help is coming whether he talks to her or not. She can shove the game playing.

FEMA gets funding at the beginning of the government fiscal year. This includes all government entities. The funds provided are based on what the agency spent the prior year. At the end of the government fiscal year(September) most agencies blow through the funds so next years funds remain the same or higher if needed. FEMA, like all of the other government entities are waiting on their funding for 2025.

What FEMA provides:
Water
Tarps
cots/bedding
Mobile home
Toddler kits in reefer trailers
Mortuary trailers
MRE
Cash assistance
Infrastructure support
And more.

What is FEMA up against after storm? The same as everyone else.

Communications down(the have satellite phones to compensate).
No electricity(which means no fuel) Tankers of fuel are transported to the affected area so tractor trailers can fuel and keep supplies moving.
Airport with electricity(no control tower) Control towers are set up usually via military so aircraft can be directed in and out safely.

FEMA has a wide reach. Haiti, Pago Pago, etc. They charter aircraft. Send pole trucks and poles/wires to rebuild infrastructure(Pago Pago). Then there i is clean up. FEMA coverers construction equipment to load debris and truck it away. Thankfully the Russians do help in many situations. The Antonov was integral in getting supplies to Pago Pago. Trucks and equipment. I had the opportunity to board an Antonov 124 after running supplies to Pago Pago. The pilots were very accommodating and enjoyed their job.







I cut my teeth with FEMA after Katrina. It took 5 years before FEMA cut it's last check for this storm. I have worked every major storm since. It is a daunting task truth be told. FEMA is a much needed government entity.

I hope all Floridians are in a safe spot and weather this storm with minimal damage. The storm is as strong as Katrina. I fear the worst for FL. Stay safe!