NYGM Tonnage War (official thread)

[U-snafu]

2. the-lets say "enhanced" dds in NYGM have been much discussed. i think a few members in here have coded work arounds back to stock dds for the mod. NYGM is still a great mod--im just not using it at this moment until i get better at evasion and general game play. note: NYGM did away with the "cloak of invisibility" silent running feature from the stock version.

3. I also have used four torps on a small merchant or tramp--on the otherhand, ive sunk an ore carrier or passenger liner with just one. could be just randomness (i.e. critical hit) and run of bad luck. I believe there has also been past discussion on the uber tugs and elcos with both NYGM and GW due to the damage models used.

[Dowly]

You really shouldn´t have to spent 4 torps to a small merchant. On my last WaW patrol I attacked convoy full of Small merchants. I sank two, and three were badly damaged just after 1 torpedo. 2nd torp would have finished them off.

[U-snafu]

only happened on a few occasions--also fired torps at same spot on ship before i learned not to--and was probably a little impatient for them to sink.

[WernerSobe]

Yes they do sink from one torpedo. But also quite often they can eat 4 and even more. Once i used 6 to sink a small merchant.

Its not realistic.

[Blood_splat]

Do I have to have previous install versions of NYGM Tonnage before I install 2.0?

Originally Posted by U-snafu

2. the-lets say "enhanced" dds in NYGM have been much discussed. i think a few members in here have coded work arounds back to stock dds for the mod. NYGM is still a great mod--im just not using it at this moment until i get better at evasion and general game play. note: NYGM did away with the "cloak of invisibility" silent running feature from the stock version.

3. I also have used four torps on a small merchant or tramp--on the otherhand, ive sunk an ore carrier or passenger liner with just one. could be just randomness (i.e. critical hit) and run of bad luck. I believe there has also been past discussion on the uber tugs and elcos with both NYGM and GW due to the damage models used.

The Stock DD's are "Uber Idiots".

The NYGM DD's are a real challenge but it is possible to escape them. Silent Running, 1 Knot, and keeping the narrow part of the boat towards the threat works. (Same as described in the U-Boat Commander's Handbook)

[WernerSobe]

well you cannot maintain the depth at 1 knot. You must run at least 4. The manuel says you must have 2 but i still keep sinking at 3 knots. From 4 up i can maintain the depth.

In anyway it doesnt matter. They can follow you even when you have the engines cut. Its not challanging its unrealistic.

[enaceo]

Finding you with the engines-cut is not really that unrealistic.If they use sonar and "ping" you ,you're pretty much Dc'd already.That was pretty much the story with real U-boats.I think that the "uber" DD's are related to crew skill or randomness...since sometimes i've been able to pass right in front of a DD at avout 3 knts and the guy didn't detect me.And once I even entered a port ,was surrounded by 3 dd's coming straight for me ,i thought i was dead but they just passed by me and nothing.

And about that sinking small water-craft with 4 or more shots-it's probably because you're not pacient enough to let it sink or fire in the same place.I have never had to fire more than 3 torpedoes in any small ship to make it sink.I almost always use impact so maybe i hit the "critical spot" more often.The manual also says that your torpedo has a slight chance to make no flooding what-so-ever if you hit directly between 2 compartments and the blast is too small.

Also,about the anti-hummingbird thing...you can keep depth at 1knt i have tested it myself but you cannot change depth.The manual says you need at least 2 knots for that ,but I've never tried changing depth at that speed.

[Stiebler]

@Blood_Splat:

No, you don't need NYGM TW v 1 to install v 2.
Indeed, you ought to un-install v 1 before using v 2.

@WernerSobe:
If you need *4* knots to surface or even maintain depth, then you are suffering from the 'crash-dive blues', much discussed in the forum previously.
Briefly, if you interfere with a crash-dive (eg by changing the final depth from 80 meters before the crash-dive has completed), then the boat sinks by the stern and becomes hard to control. This is a stock SH3 bug, but is made more noticeable in NYGM.
The solution is to take any opportunity to rise to about 50 meters, then crash-dive again, allowing the crash-dive to complete before you do anything else.

Stiebler.

NYGM Tonnage War Mod - Leading Edge Realism

Originally Posted by enaceo

Finding you with the engines-cut is not really that unrealistic.If they use sonar and "ping" you ,you're pretty much Dc'd already.That was pretty much the story with real U-boats.I think that the "uber" DD's are related to crew skill or randomness...since sometimes i've been able to pass right in front of a DD at avout 3 knts and the guy didn't detect me.And once I even entered a port ,was surrounded by 3 dd's coming straight for me ,i thought i was dead but they just passed by me and nothing.

And about that sinking small water-craft with 4 or more shots-it's probably because you're not pacient enough to let it sink or fire in the same place.I have never had to fire more than 3 torpedoes in any small ship to make it sink.I almost always use impact so maybe i hit the "critical spot" more often.The manual also says that your torpedo has a slight chance to make no flooding what-so-ever if you hit directly between 2 compartments and the blast is too small.

Also,about the anti-hummingbird thing...you can keep depth at 1knt i have tested it myself but you cannot change depth.The manual says you need at least 2 knots for that ,but I've never tried changing depth at that speed.

And the sonar operators could hear very well. I've read of Sonar operators hearing as much as a hammer falling in a U-Boat. The sonar operators themselves would also differ in skill and experience.

I've never had a depth keeping problem at 1 Knot. Depth may change, but it is very minor. Only that is if I interrupt a Crash Dive, but that was my fault.

I love the way the NYGM DD's Fight. I hope the design team never changes it back to the stock version!

The small ships will sink with one or two torpedoes, depending on where it was hit. Don't hit it in the same exact spot though. But the flooding of the ship may take some time which is realistic. You can always finish it off with your deck gun if weather permits and no aircraft are in range.

[WernerSobe]

hey im not stupid.

most of smaller ships that ive attacked sank sometimes after an hour or two with just one torpedo. I am patient and i usualy wait. But sometimes they realy can eat 4 torpedos and keep going for 9 hours. When they go for 9 hours i assume they wont sink. A small ship such a coastal vesser should not keep going for 9 hours after being hit by 4 torpedos, at no circumstances its not possible.


For DDs being uber. You have not read my post carefully.

Ive tested it. A novice DD can locate your sub lying on the ground in 140m with enines cut without pingig it by just passing by and using the hydrophone.

The VIIB boat cannot maintain depth at 3 knots. Ive clean Sh3 1.4b and using just NYGM. It cannot, very slowly but it keeps sinking at 3 knots.

[enaceo]

I'm not saying you are stupid.If you think I am saying that my apologies but I didn't mean that.I was just saying maybe you hit the same compartment ? When you said "Coastal Vessel" did you mean "coastal class" ships like "Coastal tanker" or "Coastal merchant" or did you mean the small boat that looks like a fishing boat?But in any case i have never had to fire more than 3 torps in one small target to get it to sink,and even when there were 3 the target was still barely on the surface.4 torps will usually take down a BB if they hit well...so small ships shouldn't stand a chance.
Regarding the DD's AI ,it has been discussed in threads that the DD's sometimes spot you from 5 km at silent-runing ,but that has never happened to me.
And about the speed issue-i can't say for sure about the VII if it keeps depth at 1knt,but the manual says it should.I have tested (both when raiding ports or just for experiment) the XI which i am currently using ,and at 1-2 knt silent-running speed it has no problem keeping depth(and neither changing it).

[jimmie]

Yeah, I have experienced many times that I shot 4, 5 torps to a small ship and she'd still not sink. In my last patrol I ended up spending 10 torps to sink a pair of unguarded lone small tankers. But it's likely that I kept hitting the same compartment and because of that they didn't easily sink. Probably this aspect is unrealistic since I guess I could have pentrated the other side of ship hull by the time 3rd torp exploded in the same position but that wouldn't happen in our game and it is the limitation of the original game. Modders are not the developer and there're many impossible-to-realise aspects. We should understand this and so cope with some compromises for better, bigger benefits.

As for uber DD, I *think* he fixed you before you cut the engine.. Once they find you, they're very, very nasty now (a bit too much to my taste actually ) Because of that I'm no longer very enthusiastic on a convoy and rather am excited on a lone ship for safe tagets.:rotfl:

Once I attacked a convoy in the middle of night. It was new moon so it was very dark. I was on the surface. The convoy was proteced by 4 DDs and leading DD on the front actively zigzagging. To get close as possible, I was going to cut the engine when I was very close but I didn't bother to calculate my ship's speed and I ended up getting TOO close when the leading DD was going by. He was perpendicular to me. The NYGM manual says that "could be undetected as near as 800m." I was 490m to the DD on the surface when closed to my side but the DD did not detect me! (of course I was completely halt and dead silent at the moment). The DD just passed by... well, after 10 secounds he past right in front of me in the dark, he surely found me and rammed. So you could get close undetected in some case. Well, after this experience, I now submerge even in a dark night if I wanted to get less than 2500 m to a target, though.

I haven't seen a ship sinking taking more than 9 hours with the mod, so I usually give up waiting about 10 hours. But in reality, it wasn't uncommon to take days to a ship sink.

Also, with NYGM v2 prepare even 6 or 8 real hours to escape from DDs or even a DD. Not 30 minutes of fun thrilling escape. But if you think about reality, you could have been depth charged for over 2 days.

I don't use 'C' key for crash-dive any more for the hassle. I think "crash dive" doesn't make any faster than "ahead flank and 'D' for dive." So to avoid crash-dive problem not using 'C' is an easy solution. Then you can maintain the depth at 1 knot.

And lastly, I almost no longer make an attack in the light if there's an escort. I shadow a convoy for night and sometimes I need to spend 2 days to get the position and ideal time. I used to shadow a convoy within my visual range (8km with the stock game, clear weather) but no longer. I space 20 km or even more to ensure that I would never detected while establishing collision course. Attacking in a storm now is out of question. So, it's got much like the real thing in ways of playing, and this is very frustrating, in fact. It's not game but much like a simulation, indeed.

[fire-fox]

Hi, just fire'd up NYGSH3 and started a career on a type 21 useing commander2.6, i thort that the battery/radar bugs on the 21 had been fixed. saw i gess that the XID2 is still broken then.

are there any plans to fix them or incorperat the XXI and XID2 fixes that are already out.

[Von Hinten]

Forgive me if this has been answered before, I've tried to find the answer myself but was unable to.

I've seen screenshots of sailors flying off boats that were hit by torpedo's and was wondering if that's a setting in SHIII or something a mod either added or removed.