History Channel "the Atlantic Submarine War"

[stabiz]

I dont see any US-bashing in this thread, so stop with the paranoia. The examples are there to show the opposite side of something that is clearly biased.

[Thilo]

I don't trust the History Channel anyway when it come to Military History... On one show they said the reason Gemrany lost the war was because of they way they used the Stuka heh yea...

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Someone said earlier, winner write history.
This has very quickly degraded to a bach US post.

I have a great respect for ALL the soldier that participated in WW2, friends and foe. Wether thier tactics were right or wrong.

Lets actually contribute to this post and stop the stupid US bashing, because if truth be told, we don't give a **** about what you think of us, and there isn't much you can do to change that. So have a nice warm cup of stf*

Proud Member of the UNITED STATES ARMY.

***End Rant***

Yes what a lovely way to even things out man. "That not fair, you guys are mean, I DONT GIVE A FU*K WHAT YOU THINK! I'm also a soldier so whatever you say thats critical of my nation is personallyoffensive no matter how valid it is. Thank you for being so understanding."

Why is it that you're a soldier matters? And if you dont care what "we" think about you why do you care if we are critical of the US? And talking about how the Germans are portrayed on modern TV and Movies in the US is part of the thread's subject. If that means being critical of your nation it isn't unsubstantiated "bashing". It's called critical analysis. The US isn't perfect. Nor is Britain or Germany. Hell Canada (my home btw) is definately suspect about alot of stuff. I'm a proud Canadian but I also know we made Napalm and Agent Orange for the US during Vietnam and are thus by connection responsible for alot of death and suffering. And don't try and say that we're disrespecting the soldiers of the war by being critical of what they did or did not do. That's just called history, you know talking about what happened and who dunnit. Plus if you are interested in respecting the memories of all the soldiers regardless of nationality then the way the Germans are portrayed in your country and others ought to be right up your alley. SO what I'm saying is don't accuse us of anything. It just sounds petty. And if anything reinforces the stereotype of arrogant and ignorant Americans.

So here's my personal addition to this thread. I believe it was Winston Churchill who said during WW2 that "I intend to write history".

[Rose]

I am American, but I believe Dutch has entered the wrong thread, as I do not see one ounce of "US-bashing." We are instead talking about how all navies of the Second World War committed their share of inexcusable atrocities -- the US included. We are also talking about how modern documentaries unfairly portray the Kriegsmarine.

Now that Dutch knows what we're talking about, lets get back to the subject.

[Eichenlaub]

Apart from the Peleus affair (U-852, Eck), the Kriegsmarine fought an unusually honourable war in my view. Of all the services in WWII, of all major combatant nations, the KM stands out as a service with an excellent record.

I of course do not consider submarine warfare "mean", "cowardly" or "vicious" at all. To me it is an accepted form of warfare, and all nations practiced it with varying degrees of effort and success.

If you can read German, perhaps you'd like to read this site: http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg...fbruechige.htm. It's about alleged and proven war crimes on the seas. The Peleus is the only German offence that can be proven. The U-247 and U-516 incidents were not proven to be crimes despite eyewitness testimonies in the latter's (and presumably in the former's as well) case. Uboat.net doesn't list Matschulat and Wiebe as having done anything out of the ordinary. It seems that in both cases survivors were killed by gunfire, but not specifically aimed at - which must have happened all the time of course.

Kind regards,

Eichenlaub

[Frenssen]

I recommend Discovery`s three part series "U-Boat War". It is unbiased and has interviews of veterans from both sides of the conflict.

[Seaveins]

I am a US citizen and veteran. One grandfather was a Danish resistance member and the other flew "the hump" in Asia for 3 years. I grew up with plenty of German/Japanese bashing like "the only good thing about Germany is that she lies between Denmark and Russia", etc., etc. What I have learned these past 40 years as a student of history is that war itself is the enemy. Right and wrong can be dynamic viewpoints and all countries have blemishes in their war histories. My country is having a hard time keeping our noses clean as I write.

One last thing...I work for the Smithsonian Institution and am lucky to associate with many historians on a daily basis. The History Channel's first priority is entertainment.

Respectfully - Lars

[Rose]

If you want a real good military history channel, try the Military Channel -- channel 112 on Time Warner Cable.

[STEED]

The BBC did a good three part series called The Battle of the Atlantic well worth watching.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by STEED

The BBC did a good three part series called The Battle of the Atlantic well worth watching.

I believe I read the book. It had a little sticker talking about the TV series.

The thing about the History Channel, or any channel for that matter, is that they aren't run by professors who's major concern is to maintain credibility and to spread knowledge but is run by businessmen and is primarily designed to produce revenue. Bearing that in mind they will run shows that attract a larger audience sometimes even if they aren't entirely accurate. So what is the lesson here? Never take anything for granted. Always look at information presented to you with a critical eye. Don't just believe the propoganda and always don't be afraid to take an unpopular position about something.
I remember arguing with my History 12 teacher about the motivations of Hitler to erradicate the jews. She said he was just insane. I was rather more partial to the theory that his sociopathy was obcessed with the propoganda spread throughout Germany after WW1 about how the jews were responsible for Germany's loss. That and the fact that he spent influential years as a youth in Vienna, a notoriously anti-semitic city at the time, and considered it the "perfect city". My teacher said it was just insanity and inexplicable. It's never that easy. Suffice to say I skipped most of that classes cause I couldn't stand my idiotic teacher.

[U-Dog]

Originally Posted by Seaveins

I am a US citizen and veteran. One grandfather was a Danish resistance member and the other flew "the hump" in Asia for 3 years. I grew up with plenty of German/Japanese bashing like "the only good thing about Germany is that she lies between Denmark and Russia", etc., etc. What I have learned these past 40 years as a student of history is that war itself is the enemy. Right and wrong can be dynamic viewpoints and all countries have blemishes in their war histories. My country is having a hard time keeping our noses clean as I write.

One last thing...I work for the Smithsonian Institution and am lucky to associate with many historians on a daily basis. The History Channel's first priority is entertainment.

Respectfully - Lars

True one must se the History channel for entertainment and the sort of thing that leads us to more carefully research the periods or topics we find interesting. Not bad and I for one wish more people watched it. It can be good stuff- Ive learned alot about things that I probably wouldnt take the time to read about (time, so little of it.) It's also provided a good review/refresher of things I've read about or studied. Wile it is a shame that they don't explain the war time propaganda bits...well it may e really bad if it leads to increased or continued bias....er ok, so I do agree with the original posters point, but still, :hmm: trying to look on the bright side that's the kinda crap i was exposed to as a youth and managed to learn that it aint as simple as old wartime propaganda would have us believe; maybe the next generaton will work it out. ?
As a socially responsible person maybe you--or I-- should post something at the History Channels' website ?? I bet they have forums, eh ?

Teach the youth will ya.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by U-Dog

Teach the youth will ya.

I am the youth. Believe me. We're getting stupider every generation. We just don't give a Feck. Ask 'em what WW1 was about and you'll get a blank stare.

[Seaveins]

Originally Posted by P_Funk

I am the youth. Believe me. We're getting stupider every generation. We just don't give a Feck. Ask 'em what WW1 was about and you'll get a blank stare.

I admit that I am somewhat of a history nerd but I am afraid that many in my generation are no better than our youth. You guys might enjoy this: 20+ years ago during the "Trivial Pursuit" craze, a local radio station promo held a "Stump the Expert" contest. Anyone that could stump the expert on any subject received a free T-shirt. There were over 150 people in attendance and my turn came. I asked the expert: Which famous British ship was sunk by the Bismarck? He glared at me for a
while, challenged the audience (silent), and threw me T-shirt. I thought that was too easy but it amazed me that no one had a clue. I went on to seek a career/friends teaching history.

[Eichenlaub]

I am the youth. Believe me. We're getting stupider every generation. We just don't give a Feck. Ask 'em what WW1 was about and you'll get a blank stare.

P_Funk: they might even go wide-eyed and exclaim: "There was a first one?".

Aye, history and young ones...

Kind regards,

Eichenlaub

Which famous British ship was sunk by the Bismarck? You'd think everyone would know that.

My question would have been: What's the only battleship every to be credited with sinking a submarine? Hardly anybody knows that.

As for stupidity...err...lack of knowledge, your generation has no monopoly. I was a teenager during the Vietnam war, and most of my class's supporters and protesters couldn't point out Vietnam on a map.