[REL] Dark Waters

[propbeanie]

There is a web site, which I cannot find just now (my "search" skills have apparently deteriorated), that describes the grid's layout in lat/long terms for some of the major divides, and describes the distances between the lines... You can then use the bottom border of the ME to see your mouse pointer's lat/long location, and do some "rough" routing that way. Note though, that there were some missions lurker did, as well as several that we did with Fifi that are off by several kilometers, and sometimes hundreds of kilometers, so that is why some of the "orders" text is not accurate. Some are due to the grid system and its idiosyncrasies, and others are due to math calculation issues ( ) on the part of the modders... Sometimes, you just have to guess, then run the mission, see where everything is, and then go back into the mis / tsr file and change the text to match the actual game display, or vice versa... One final point, lurker did a LOT of 'historical' convoys in there, so look really close at their GroupNames and make certain he hasn't already done the heavy lifting, and all you need to do is add-in a few AI subs. I do not recall if he put the documentation of the convoys in the mod the way he did RSRDC, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did. Look in the Documentatioin and Support folders of OM. The Documentation folder is NOT transferred to the game folders path the way Data and Support are, but would only be found in the mod folder.

[Jeff-Groves]

This one maybe?


https://www.kartengruppe.it/

[propbeanie]

He has the maps there, but my high skrule German cannot carry me through his left-hand menu... but it looks to be more of a shopping site. He has posted here on SubSim several times, and has some really cool stuff, but somewhere else has the "description" of the system they used to draw those maps. I have found a better search clue here:

https://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmar.../feature6.html

so now I am off to look-up "Marinequadratkarte" and "Großquadrate"... lol


Edit: getting closer
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinequadrat (use Translate)
http://www.uboataces.com/articles-naval-grid.shtml

but still no lat/long that they built the system from... it does get to be a real bother though (at least for me) to have to do calculation math for each coordinate you want to place in the ME... they should have made it to where you could overlay the grid in it...

[Jeff-Groves]

Maybe this will be of use.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/ziqsd..._maps.rar/file

[Jeff-Groves]

Here ya go.

http://www.navalgrid.com/

[propbeanie]

That's the one!

[Bubblehead1980]

Thanks for all the answers, the SH 4 world including the KM map in DW does not exactly correspond to the real world positions in documentation, unfortunately.. SH 4 earth is flat etc.

I was hoping to load it in ME , so could accurately place convoys and have proper corresponding sighting reports etc.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Here ya go.

http://www.navalgrid.com/

Excellent. Thanks for the link

[propbeanie]

The real KM grid was created with a Mercator map, which is what SH4's NavMap is. The game's KM grid does not have all of the idiosyncrasies that the real one does, but it is very close. As for the Lat Long coordinates in SH4, remember that they use the decimal system n the ME, and not the minutes / seconds, so if you see -153.74, you are going west from the Meridian, probably somewhere just east of Pearl Harbor (depending upon the Latitude of course), but that the .74 would equate to roughly 44 minutes, 24 seconds, or round it to 45 minutes. I have not seen too many locations off by much. Just remember that everything is "flat" Mercator, even when you are on the boat. As you say though, a KM grid that can be imported into the ME would have been a really nice touch for them to do... It might be possible to do, but I cannot wrap my brain around it just yet. Maybe someone else has some ideas??

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

There is a web site, which I cannot find just now (my "search" skills have apparently deteriorated), that describes the grid's layout in lat/long terms for some of the major divides, and describes the distances between the lines... You can then use the bottom border of the ME to see your mouse pointer's lat/long location, and do some "rough" routing that way. Note though, that there were some missions lurker did, as well as several that we did with Fifi that are off by several kilometers, and sometimes hundreds of kilometers, so that is why some of the "orders" text is not accurate. Some are due to the grid system and its idiosyncrasies, and others are due to math calculation issues ( ) on the part of the modders... Sometimes, you just have to guess, then run the mission, see where everything is, and then go back into the mis / tsr file and change the text to match the actual game display, or vice versa... One final point, lurker did a LOT of 'historical' convoys in there, so look really close at their GroupNames and make certain he hasn't already done the heavy lifting, and all you need to do is add-in a few AI subs. I do not recall if he put the documentation of the convoys in the mod the way he did RSRDC, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did. Look in the Documentatioin and Support folders of OM. The Documentation folder is NOT transferred to the game folders path the way Data and Support are, but would only be found in the mod folder.

Yes, aware of the "in game" coordinates displayed at bottom of screen. Problem I noticed when creating TMO is those coordinates do not always correspond to real world positions due to the differences in the SH 4 map and real Earth.


I've looked all through the traffic layers in DW and far as I can tell Lurker did not do the historic convoys in North Atlantic layers I am working on. They are all random generated groups that spawn every so many hours with a 70-80 percent chance to spawn. The readme mentioned due to the scale/number of convoys he did not take the RSRD approach. In the Arctic convoy layers, some are historic, spawn only one once etc but in the Atlantic Convoys traffic layers (Lant Convoys 41 for example) they are all random groups. I am adding historic as I did in TMO where they spawn once. Currently working on HX 72 in September 1940 and then want to add HX 79 and SC-7 in October 1940. Want to add the sighting reports etc and set the AI subs up to be present. Although at this time don't have a submerged model nor ones the fire torpedoes, hope to have that at some point. Anything they will add immersion to the attack and distract escorts while player attacks. Still researching for 42-45