[REL] Dark Waters

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

hedgehogs did not carry much of a charge, IIRC.
their effect was to make some kind of a hit such that the sonar-guy could hear the noise and echo of the hit and then the captain could order a quick change of weapon to bring the full rage-and-fury upon the Uboat. Combat Tactics, Mr BH.

"Combat Tactics, Mr. BH"

Okay Captain Ramius


One of of things about DW is it is much more difficult to keep aware of what's going on without external cam ( I do not use it for attack etc, only for screen shots or enjoying "cinematic moments" such as ships being torpedoed etc. This is because of the sound, for example the depth charge splashes are not as pronounced I am used in TMO with EAX. You don't hear the "boom" of depth charges firing of the y/k guns, or the engine noises of ships close aboard. Still adjusting. Some point hope to make EAX compatible with DW.


True, but would you not agree to take two hits from hedgehogs and have no damage because as I found in the hedgehog.zon file, their max HP is 10 and min is 2, likely needs adjusting?

[Mad Mardigan]

Interesting read...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgeh...7%20to%201.%20


https://www.history.navy.mil/content.../hedgehog.html








M. M.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

True, but would you not agree to take two hits from hedgehogs and have no damage because as I found in the hedgehog.zon file, their max HP is 10 and min is 2, likely needs adjusting?

i don't know.
there is only so much one can simulate...and some things cannot be simulated.
i suppose that you can make that HP value whatever you want.
me, personally, i would leave it there and play on.
"I should have died many times, Captain, but I continue to survive somehow. This time it was your hedgehogs fault."

[propbeanie]

A hedgehog hit should be near catastrophic to a submarine. Two would usually "kill" it. I know this site is not the most reliable, but there are other sources:

Wikipedia: Hedgehog (weapon)

toward the bottom 1/3 of the page:

4. A direct hit by one or two Hedgehog bombs was usually sufficient to sink a submarine.[citation needed]
Many depth charges were required to inflict enough cumulative damage to sink a submarine; even then, many U-boats survived hundreds of detonations over a period of many hours—678 depth charges were dropped against U-427 in April 1945. The depth charge, usually exploding at a distance from the submarine, had a cushion of water between it and the target which rapidly dissipated the explosive shock. The Hedgehog's charge, on the other hand, exploded in direct contact with the hull. However, near misses with the Hedgehog were silent and did not cause any damage, unlike the cumulative damage caused by several depth charge near-misses; nor did it have the same psychological effect as a depth charge attack.

Who do you inquire of about that 'citation' detail?? I also wonder who they asked about that "...nor did it have the same psychological effect as a depth charge attack"... quote?... lol - In the game, you don't hear a drop as they're passing over, so you ~know~ they are up to something - but what?? Then BOOM BOOM "we're taking damage sir!" "we have heavy flooding sir!" "Medic!" spinning screen rapidly fading to black. Imagine real life... war is not good, and should not happen. Alas, man is greedy and wants what his neighbor possesses, so it shall be until we die.

"whoah!!! where did this conversation go???"... lol - sorry

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Imagine real life... war is not good, and should not happen. Alas, man is greedy and wants what his neighbor possesses, so it shall be until we die.

"whoah!!! where did this conversation go???"... lol - sorry

i don't know.
i was paraphrasing the Kaleun from Enemy Below.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

A hedgehog hit should be near catastrophic to a submarine. Two would usually "kill" it. I know this site is not the most reliable, but there are other sources:

Wikipedia: Hedgehog (weapon)

toward the bottom 1/3 of the page:

4. A direct hit by one or two Hedgehog bombs was usually sufficient to sink a submarine.[citation needed]
Many depth charges were required to inflict enough cumulative damage to sink a submarine; even then, many U-boats survived hundreds of detonations over a period of many hours—678 depth charges were dropped against U-427 in April 1945. The depth charge, usually exploding at a distance from the submarine, had a cushion of water between it and the target which rapidly dissipated the explosive shock. The Hedgehog's charge, on the other hand, exploded in direct contact with the hull. However, near misses with the Hedgehog were silent and did not cause any damage, unlike the cumulative damage caused by several depth charge near-misses; nor did it have the same psychological effect as a depth charge attack.

Who do you inquire of about that 'citation' detail?? I also wonder who they asked about that "...nor did it have the same psychological effect as a depth charge attack"... quote?... lol - In the game, you don't hear a drop as they're passing over, so you ~know~ they are up to something - but what?? Then BOOM BOOM "we're taking damage sir!" "we have heavy flooding sir!" "Medic!" spinning screen rapidly fading to black. Imagine real life... war is not good, and should not happen. Alas, man is greedy and wants what his neighbor possesses, so it shall be until we die.

"whoah!!! where did this conversation go???"... lol - sorry

That is the impression I received from my research, one hit by a hedgehog was usually enough to mortally wound it, two would sink it.


DW did something I implemented into TMO which is how cumulative damage from depth charge attacks sink your boat in most cases vs "instadeath" when get too many hitpoints which is default SH 4 model. I've learned some things since at and some point will update TMO damage model again.


Well, until I took two hits with no damage lol I feared hedgehog more, which is why i am modifying it in the mod. One big advantage player has with hedgehog is if you are submerged deep, they have a harder time getting hits. I took two hits out of 8 salvos of hedgehog fired and on the two salvos I was hit I was at 100-150 meters, vs when I was at 180-200 meters on others. The time it takes for them to fall to deep depth, sub even moving slowly will be clear, typically. Of course run risk of taking a hit at deep depth and hull collapse as well.


I believe I read that it was recommended to escorts to not use hedgehog on targets at depth below 400 feet as depth charges worked better, given the excess pressure to "crack" the hull.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

i don't know.
i was paraphrasing the Kaleun from Enemy Below.

lol - That sir, is younger than me!... lol - but yeah, I was talking about the dude who posted in #1416...

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

That is the impression I received from my research, one hit by a hedgehog was usually enough to mortally wound it, two would sink it...

The deeper, the worser for the sub, I'm sure... I mention that "[citation needed]" quote again, since from what I have seen (or NOT seen), is that the U-Boats (and by extension, the BdU) had no idea what was taking them out. Mum's the word was SOP. Dunno fershure though, of course. My dad was a PO1c on LSTs beginning with Leyte Gulf landings, was six years active (WW2 & Korea), and had not heard of hedgehogs until 1955 when he started hanging out with my future uncle, who was a tin can sailor... Probably neither of them knew about the Mark14 issues at the time either... "Didn't concern me, didn't need to know"... lol

[Jeff-Groves]

Someone needs to build the "Mouse trap" for smaller patrol vessels.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Someone needs to build the "Mouse trap" for smaller patrol vessels.

Yes! and "Squid" as well