Mass Shooting thread

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by u crank

That's a pretty broad question but ok. The 'reshaping of society' would be the attempt to change long held beliefs and norms to advance a political and social agenda. Sometimes this is a good thing but if that attempt is based on an inaccurate assumption, society as a whole will be adversely affected.

A inaccurate assumption like "everyone benefits from capitalism"?

A glaring example of this is the current debate about sexual identity and gender.

One of the main (far) right talking points. Something that in the end doesn't affect them at all, something that they neiter do understand nor try to understand nor want to understand.
What does it say about a society if it forces its people to live unhappy lives or hide their true selves?

Without going into it you can say that these beliefs are not based on science or reality.

Like religion?

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

One of the main (far) right talking points. Something that in the end doesn't affect them at all, something that they neither do understand nor try to understand nor want to understand.

This is untrue on all points. How could it not effect them and society as a whole if it is based on unscientific assumptions? And if these unscientific beliefs are taught to children how could that be good? I'll go on record here and say that what you or anyone else believes about sex and gender is your business. I could care less until that moment when I am ask to believe and accept something I know is not true. I wouldn't do that to you or anyone else. Don't do it to me.

What does it say about a society if it forces its people to live unhappy lives or hide their true selves?

Although the are some people who might want that, it is not true for society in general. By far most people have understanding and acceptance.

I think the real question is what what kind of society would we have if we accept and believe certain things which go against basic science and common sense. Where will this lead? The problem with progressive/lefties is that they want to bend the will of others to accept trans ideology regardless of the arguments against it. There should be a middle ground here but don't ask a progressive what that is.

Like religion?

You'll get no argument about that from me.

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by u crank

This is untrue on all points. How could it not effect them and society as a whole if it is based on unscientific assumptions? And if these unscientific beliefs are taught to children how could that be good? I'll go on record here and say that what you or anyone else believes about sex and gender is your business. I could care less until that moment when I am ask to believe and accept something I know is not true. I wouldn't do that to you or anyone else. Don't do it to me.

Quite wrong on so many accounts (and this "conservative" point of view usually doesn't survive the first contact with climate change).
You are not even asked to accept. You are asked to let others live their lives in peace - which is something you take for granted for yourself, but has been denied to LGBTQ+ (and many others) until very recently.



And I highly doubt you "know" it to be not true. You may want it to be not true, and you might put yourself under the illusion that it can't be true because it doesn't fit your point of view. That doesn't make it not true, however.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

You are not even asked to accept.

Sorry but that is just not true. Not only are we asked to accept but any criticism of trans and LGBTQ+ ideology can get a person into all kinds of trouble. I'm not sure what it is like in your country but that is a fact of life in the US and here in Canada. I believe that the UK is just as bad. This is 'wrong think' right out of 1984. Doesn't seem very 'progressive'.

You are asked to let others live their lives in peace - which is something you take for granted for yourself, but has been denied to LGBTQ+ (and many others) until very recently.

As I have stated, I could care less what other people believe about themselves. If they are happy that is all that matters. Good luck to them. But don't tell me that radical ideologies of any kind do not have an effect on the rest of society. The very idea that people can deny the state that they were born in (a scientific fact) and then cut off body parts to affirm that denial is not normal. I support anyone's right to do that or anything else to their bodies, but don't tell me it is normal or healthy behavior.

And I highly doubt you "know" it to be not true. You may want it to be not true, and you might put yourself under the illusion that it can't be true because it doesn't fit your point of view. That doesn't make it not true, however.

I know that females have 2 X chromosomes and males have 1 X and 1 Y chromosome. Is that news to you?

[Jeff-Groves]

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by u crank

any criticism of trans and LGBTQ+ ideology

Nice wording for something that in 99% of the cases is nothing but "discrimination" (and meant as such).

he very idea that people can deny the state that they were born in (a scientific fact) and then cut off body parts to affirm that denial is not normal. I support anyone's right to do that or anything else to their bodies, but don't tell me it is normal or healthy behavior.

Again proving my point: you don't understand, you don't try to understand, because you simply don't want to understand.
"Normal" btw is very problematic, because there's no definition of "normality" beyond the individual. Two people, two different ideas of "normality".
Healthy behaviour? There's an awful lot things people do that are far away from healthy.

I know that females have 2 X chromosomes and males have 1 X and 1 Y chromosome. Is that news to you?

Is it news to you that there are males with two X chromosomes (about one in 10.000 to 20.000)? Is it news to you that there are XY-females (one in 10.000? Is it news to you that there are XYY males (about one in 7000)? Is it news to you that there are XXY males (rather common, about one in every 500 to 1000)?

[les green01]

This conservative thinking it is funny all these Europeans are experts on the US when they probably haven't lived or spent time here personally I don't care if someone gay or what ever but it couldn't be taught in grade school maybe not school at all but should be up to the parents but then I'm also a believer in spare the rod spoil the child but also trying to figure out what any of this stuff got to do with mass shooting topic

[August]

Originally Posted by les green01

This conservative thinking it is funny all these Europeans are experts on the US when they probably haven't lived or spent time here personally I don't care if someone gay or what ever but it couldn't be taught in grade school maybe not school at all but should be up to the parents but then I'm also a believer in spare the rod spoil the child but also trying to figure out what any of this stuff got to do with mass shooting topic

Your posts are difficult to read because of your refusal to use punctuation marks but I think I agree.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

Nice wording for something that in 99% of the cases is nothing but "discrimination" (and meant as such).

Again proving my point: you don't understand, you don't try to understand, because you simply don't want to understand.

Accusing me of not wanting to understand is childish. How do you know that? I think I understand the subject quite well. It is not very hard to find out. The pros and cons of trans ideology are widely available. You seem unable to differentiate between criticism and discrimination. I think I have been quite clear on that. If you are saying that the trans movement can't be examined and criticized then you are making my exact point. Is trans ideology or any ideology for that matter above being questioned? There is a certain authoritarian bent to that kind of thing which I find disturbing.

Healthy behavior? There's an awful lot things people do that are far away from healthy.

That is true. But again let us ask a simple question. Is cutting off body parts one of those things?

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

You are not even asked to accept. You are asked to let others live their lives in peace - which is something you take for granted for yourself, but has been denied to LGBTQ+ (and many others) until very recently.

I call BS.

Masterpiece Cakeshop vs Colorado civil rights commission. While the cakeshop prevailed in their appeal to the Supreme Court, (this was a very narrow ruling specific to this instance). Please pay specific attention to the dissenting opinion of the Court.