Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Skybird]

Germany has expelled 40 Russian diplomats accused of spying.

[Catfish]

Russian propaganda: https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html

Translation:

"Denazification is necessary when a significant part of the people - most likely the majority - has been mastered and drawn into the Nazi regime in its politics. That is, when the hypothesis "the people are good - the government is bad" does not work. Recognition of this fact is the basis of the policy of denazification, of all its measures, and the fact itself is its subject matter.
Residents of Mariupol receive humanitarian aid delivered from Russia from the People's Militia of the DPR - RIA Novosti, 1920,

Russia is responsible for Ukraine

Ukraine is in just such a situation. The fact that the Ukrainian voter voted for the "peace of Poroshenko" and "peace of Zelensky" should not be misleading - the Ukrainians were quite satisfied with the shortest path to peace through the blitzkrieg, which the last two Ukrainian presidents transparently hinted at when they were elected. It was this method of "appeasement" of internal anti-fascists - through total terror - that was used in Odessa , Kharkov , Dnepropetrovsk , Mariupol, other Russian cities. And this quite suited the Ukrainian man in the street. Denazification is a set of measures in relation to the nazified mass of the population, which technically cannot be subjected to direct punishment as war criminals.

However, in addition to the top, a significant part of the masses, which are passive Nazis, accomplices of Nazism, are also guilty. They supported and indulged Nazi power. The just punishment of this part of the population is possible only as bearing the inevitable hardships of a just war against the Nazi system, carried out with the utmost care and discretion in relation to civilians. Further denazification of this mass of the population consists in re-education, which is achieved by ideological repression (suppression) of Nazi attitudes and strict censorship: not only in the political sphere, but also necessarily in the sphere of culture and education. It was through culture and education that a deep mass nazification of the population was prepared and carried out, secured by the promise of dividends from the victory of the Nazi regime over Russia , Nazi propaganda, internal violence and terror, as well as an eight-year war with the people of Donbass who rebelled against Ukrainian Nazism.

Denazification can only be carried out by the winner, which implies (1) his absolute control over the denazification process and (2) the power to ensure such control. In this respect, a denazified country cannot be sovereign. The denazifying state - Russia - cannot proceed from a liberal approach with regard to denazification. The ideology of the denazifier cannot be disputed by the guilty party subjected to denazification. Russia's recognition of the need to denazify Ukraine means the recognition of the impossibility of the Crimean scenario for Ukraine as a whole. However, this scenario was impossible in 2014 and in the rebellious Donbass. Only eight years of resistance to Nazi violence and terror led to internal cohesion and a conscious unambiguous mass refusal to maintain any unity and connection with Ukraine.
....

The terms of denazification can in no way be less than one generation, which must be born, grow up and reach maturity under the conditions of denazification. The nazification of Ukraine continued for more than 30 years, beginning at least in 1989, when Ukrainian nationalism received legal and legitimate forms of political expression and led the movement for "independence" towards Nazism.
....

Therefore, denazification cannot be carried out in a compromise, on the basis of a formula like " NATO- no, the EU - yes. "The collective West is itself the designer, source and sponsor of Ukrainian Nazism, while the Western Bandera cadres and their "historical memory" are only one of the tools for the Nazismization of Ukraine. Ukronazism carries not less, but a greater threat the world and Russia than the German Nazism of the Hitlerite version."


Laughable, but imagine being bombarded with such BS for years

[FUBAR295]

Originally Posted by tmccarthy

Conspiracy theory Number 2:

-The Washington D.C Globalist-Woke Vision

Thought experiment: For a moment forget what people are saying they are doing in these conflicts, the rhetoric, the media and all the arguments about who's at fault and who's right or wrong.
Think in simplified terms of What is Actually Happening.

-Iraq:
attacked, degraded, destroyed, rebuilt in globalist-woke vision. (mission fail)

-Afghanistan:
attacked, degraded, destroyed, rebuilt in globalist-woke vision. (mission fail)

-Ukraine:
attacked, degraded, destroyed

-Russia:
attacked, degraded


Questions:
1. Before the war what do we think the globalist-woke view really was of Ukraine as far as a country that they wanted to change?
2. Do we believe the globalist-woke believe groups in Ukraine like the Azov Battalion, a white supremacist organization, are really freedom fighters or are they seen as an enemy and they are happy to see them degraded and destroyed in this war?
3. Right now both Ukraine and Russia are being degraded in this war, are they "killing two birds with one stone."?
4. Do the globalist -woke really see Ukraine and Russia as two things or as the same thing?
5. Nobody in the globalist-woke movement seems too concerned about stopping Ukraine from being destroyed so is that what they actually want?


I just had these thoughts and typed this out in the last 10 minutes so I would be curious to hear what anybody thinks about any part of this view? Tear my ideas apart, call me crazy, whatever I'm fine with it.
-Tim

Conspiracy theories are all a bunch of Bull S... not worth the time to consider.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Germany has expelled 40 Russian diplomats accused of spying.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/germany-...inks-1.1747469

If this green, left and young foreign ministress (ahem) Mrs Baerbock reacts like that, Russia really must have hit a nerve

[tmccarthy]

Originally Posted by FUBAR295

Conspiracy theories are all a bunch of Bull S... not worth the time to consider.

So you don't believe conspiracies exist in the world? That seems like a very dangerous way to live.

I really prefer to stick to any of the points I raised instead of avoiding them and focusing on the use of the word "conspiracy". But if not here's something to maybe consider...

-Tim

Just because it's a conspiracy doesn't mean it isn't true | Matthew Dentith - Ted Talk

[FUBAR295]

Yeah, they exist, for the weak minded who do not think things through, or do not approach it what is being said logically, step by step.

What makes it dangerous is stupid people believing this nonsense.

That is all I have to say on this subject.

[tmccarthy]

Copy.

-Tim

[tmccarthy]

Originally Posted by August

So the best you can cite is a supposed wounding of some captured soldiers and you want us to figure that puts the Ukrainians in the same moral boat as the Russians who are murdering civilians wholesale left and right?

Do you think that is "supposed wounding" of Russian soldiers?! Like afterward the Ukrainians gave them a ride to the 'emergency room' to see a doctor?

I believe it is torture and murder of POW's.

I admitted that the Russians are surely going to be worse but I'm willing to put the Ukrainians in the same "boat" of committing atrocities until proven otherwise.

I don't like either side! And why is everybody so with the Ukrainians? Just because they are fighting the guys we traditionally don't like? Ukraine has some serious bad issues to.

And I offered more, Col. Macgregors statement of Ukraine Army acting like ISIS and the fact that we don't know the full story yet and there's no reason to believe the Ukraine Army isn't committing atrocities looking at the historic and ethnic situation there it is certain.

Again, I'm trying not to attack you personally but that's just the way it comes out? You/me/we it's all the same...

-Tim

*edit: I had to come back and add this: Shooting Prisoners of War in the knees is "wounding"?

[Buddahaid]

I don't want to get into an argument about conspiracies of "globalist-woke" agendas since I see it as more about foreign policy goals than internal US political name calling.

I side with Ukraine mostly because I see Putin's Russia as an agressor state starting a war on thin pretense of the boogie man neo nazi as if the Ukraine was massing battalions of nazi criminals on the border preparing to invade or some such nonsense. Anyway, name one war that didn't have atrocities on both sides?

"*edit: I had to come back and add this: Shooting Prisoners of War in the knees is "wounding"?"

POW's were routinely shot dead in WW1 when they were a liability to a mission.

[les green01]

though the test of history becoming a pow not really a best of thing comes down to it call it in on you least if you get it the other sob won't have the satisfaction of doing you in

[Buddahaid]

Some battle analysis.

[tmccarthy]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I don't want to get into an argument about conspiracies of "globalist-woke" agendas since I see it as more about foreign policy goals than internal US political name calling.

I side with Ukraine mostly because I see Putin's Russia as an agressor state starting a war on thin pretense of the boogie man neo nazi as if the Ukraine was massing battalions of nazi criminals on the border preparing to invade or some such nonsense. Anyway, name one war that didn't have atrocities on both sides?

"*edit: I had to come back and add this: Shooting Prisoners of War in the knees is "wounding"?"

POW's were routinely shot dead in WW1 when they were a liability to a mission.

I understand your point of view on the war and it's such an immense issue and there's probably at least 5 things in your response (and many in my posts) that we could get into and argue and debate endlessly.

So these two points. I'm not trying to engage in name-calling, I'm just trying to define what I see. I think an important part of how we got to this war started with Putin 10 or so years ago was about trying to change racism and discrimination in Russia and defined Putin as the main target. That's where people like Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama really seem to have started and where I think people like Joe Biden come from. That is what I'm calling the "globalist-woke" movement. People who think it's our job to socially redesign other cultures in the world, like in the Tucker Carlsons piece on Afghanistan and I think it's behind the goal of getting Ukraine into NATO and ultimately confronting and defeating Russia. A worthy cause, but I don't think it's really our job, this is not the best way to do it and how much we are risking is proportionately unacceptably dangerous.

There's racism and discrimination all over this world why did they think it was a priority to try and fix it in Russia?

Second, I can't say I agree with the shooting of POW's during WW1 on a mission. But there is at least some justification, being on a mission they were still in 'combat' and the POW's were a threat to their survival so on those grounds you could still say technically they were "enemy combatants" to justify killing them.
But how does that relate to committing a war crime of shooting POW's in the knees which I can only define as torturing prisoners?

-Tim

[Buddahaid]

Here's a book about it. There should some other free sources to dig out.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/26070821

[tmccarthy]

Originally Posted by les green01

though the test of history becoming a pow not really a best of thing comes down to it call it in on you least if you get it the other sob won't have the satisfaction of doing you in

Being taken prisoner seems like one of the worst fates possible. That's why I think putting POWs on TV and interviewing them and broadcasting their statements is pointless(and illegal). Whatever they say it's coming from a defeated man and very likely not what he would have said before he was captured.

-Tim

[tmccarthy]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Here's a book about it. There should some other free sources to dig out.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/26070821

Copy.

-Tim