(FOTRSU) Tench class

[Zero Niner]

I just took command of the USS Tench - did the class really carry so many torpedoes? 6 bow tubes, 14 reloads, 4 stern tubes, 5 reloads.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

I just took command of the USS Tench - did the class really carry so many torpedoes? 6 bow tubes, 14 reloads, 4 stern tubes, 5 reloads.

Yes. Tench was a improved BALO Class. Could dive deeper and rearrangement of ballast system allowed to carry more torpedoes.

[Zero Niner]

What was the test depth? I'm assuming game's depth corresponds to the actual number. The Balao class was 400', I believe.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

What was the test depth? I'm assuming game's depth corresponds to the actual number. The Balao class was 400', I believe.

there is no difference in the test depths of the Balao and Tench classes. Test depth was 400 ft (120 m) according to U.S. Submarines Through 1945 pp. 305–311.
They found that by increasing the thickness of the pressure hull plating (Gato to Balao), and by switching to stronger High Tensile Steel (HTS) they could increase maximum diving depth to 650 feet, a substantial increase over the 300 foot test depth of the Gatos. however, in the interests of safety, the official test depth is either 400 or 450 feet, depending on whose version of the official record you want to believe.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

What was the test depth? I'm assuming game's depth corresponds to the actual number. The Balao class was 400', I believe.

412 ft was test depth for Tench and Balao. Of course could go much deeper and did, sometimes intentionally, sometimes due to flooding/damage. Americans test depth ratings were conservative for safety. Gato was 300 but could go deeper. Even old Porpoise Class, with her riveted hull, USS Pollack went to 540 ft during a out of control crash dive avoiding enemy destroyer coming at her .I cant remember if her dive planes jammed or she was damaged also, been a while since read the book but 540 ft. They were definitely on the brink.

650 ft is deepest I have read about but may have been deeper.

[Zero Niner]

How does the game handle crush depth? Is it generated once at the start of the command of the boat, or each and every time you exceed test depth?
I'd imagine that if it were the former it'd be straightforward to test what the actual crush depth of the particular boat is.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

How does the game handle crush depth? Is it generated once at the start of the command of the boat, or each and every time you exceed test depth?
I'd imagine that if it were the former it'd be straightforward to test what the actual crush depth of the particular boat is.

Yes, if you want to actually know each boats crush depth, could just start up game with each one and dive them until hull collapses and you get death screen. Should ask if you really want to know because then you have that knowledge, takes some of the challenge/sense of danger when invested in a career away.

The boat's max depth is set in the .zon file. Each class is different and there is a unknown factor controlling it because the number set does not always mean. For example, a Gato in TMO, in the .zon file, the number is 254.75 meters, which is 835.79 feet, but can tell you it does not go to to even 600 feet before hull collapses , nor should it. However, if I increase the number, it will go below 600 ft safely. So number is not exact. A BALAO or TENCH or other hand, can safely go to 650 ft , as they could in real life. In the .zon files their max depth is around 1000 feet but of course, they do not go that deep.

In stock, you lose X number of hit points for every second are below crush depth, so your hull strength is 100, you go below crush depth, start seeing lights flicker, hull damage indicator will start ticking off, might hear pipes bust, glass break, perhaps a message saying "We are diving too deep sir!" . They make the damage really slow so player has a chance to get back above the depth, but your hull will keep taking damage until all of the boat is above crush depth. More depth, more pressure.
h

In mods like TMO, once you hit crush depth, your hull takes damage rapidly, I think its 50 hitpoints per second at or below crush depth. Well max hitpoints for any boat is 375 and that is for Balao, so it happens rapidly. In nearly 99 percent of cases player won't have time to get back up and save boat, nor should they. Mods that do this simulates it a more realistic manner. Once a sub reaches that depth, its all over.


Hull integrity plays a big role in things as well. Say you boat's crush depth is 500 feet and you take hull damage of say 3 percent. Take 3 percent from 500 feet and that is boats new crush depth.Three percent not too big of a deal but 10-15 is, especially if evading enemy or damaged and have flooding. Again, depends on type of boat. A Gato with test depth of 300, can still safely operate between 300-400 feet with 3 percent hull damage where as a older boat like a S Boat or Porpoise, can not.

In TMO Update, I made it where boats could at least go as deep as we know they went. So yea, the Porpoise Class, can make it to 540 feet, as Pollack did but it really is no advisable because its teetering on the edge lol. One close depth charge will collapse a Porpoise Class's hull at depth , where as a Balao or even Gato with full hull integrity can probably survive it. Interesting thing I found in all the testing for new damage model and depth charges for my mod is the game does simulate the different effects of depth charge explosions, the pressure at different depths.

So can have a Balao at 450 feet take a depth charge close and survive but take same one at say 600-650 feet, will cause serious damage if not hull failure and thus loss of the boat. Tested this many times on different classes different depths. I made sure depth charge was always worth some hitpoints in these tests.

A general rule can count on on all boats except maybe S Class is that is have full hull integrity 100 ft below test depth is safe, beyond that taking a big risk. For example, last patrol I took some minor hull damage from firt depth charge attack (2/100) so was not that concerned. A very close depth charge in second depth charge attack pushed it up to 18/100. I was still okay with staying below 300-400 feet, but did not want to go below that. I was in a Gato, test depth 300 ft, usually stay between 300-400 anyways. While concerned, was confident would be fine. However, if took anymore damage, probably would have returned to port early.

[Zero Niner]

OK, got it thanks.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

The boat's max depth is set in the .zon file. Each class is different and there is a unknown factor controlling it because the number set does not always mean. For example, a Gato in TMO, in the .zon file, the number is 254.75 meters, which is 835.79 feet, but can tell you it does not go to to even 600 feet before hull collapses , nor should it. However, if I increase the number, it will go below 600 ft safely. So number is not exact. A BALAO or TENCH or other hand, can safely go to 650 ft , as they could in real life. In the .zon files their max depth is around 1000 feet but of course, they do not go that deep.

don't want to argue with you however i have experienced different results.
at the moment, i am driving a Gato and the Crush Depth in Gato.Zon is set to 305 meters....nominally 1000 feet.

i couple of missions ago, we got caught by a volley of DC as were diving through the the thermocline at speed, and by the time we could catch our "fall", we were in excess of 1000 feet....by a considerable amount. Thank The Maker and Electric Boat, for that.

this is only an example of performance and, of course, yours could vary, but it is consistent with previous experiences in that actual Crush Depth in SH4 seems to be nominally greater than what is in the Zon file.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

don't want to argue with you however i have experienced different results.
at the moment, i am driving a Gato and the Crush Depth in Gato.Zon is set to 305 meters....nominally 1000 feet.

i couple of missions ago, we got caught by a volley of DC as were diving through the the thermocline at speed, and by the time we could catch our "fall", we were in excess of 1000 feet....by a considerable amount. Thank The Maker and Electric Boat, for that.

this is only an example of performance and, of course, yours could vary, but it is consistent with previous experiences in that actual Crush Depth in SH4 seems to be nominally greater than what is in the Zon file.

No arguing, I am curious as what I stated is based on TMO Update.

You are telling me that you made it to 1000 feet in a GATO in my TMO Update mod? Not a Balao or Tench (neither of them should make it that deep) but a GATO? Did you survive the trip? I mean I've been to 1000 feet before the death screen occurs, but the sub was essentially destroyed, hull damage was 100, equipment destroyed from pressure, it was a one way trip.

I don't see how. I've tested this many times during development. Crush depth set in the .zon for Gato is 260.74 meters or 855.45 feet. Previously (by default in original TMO) was 254.75 meters or 835.79 At 254.75 actual crush depth was somewhere between 500-and 600 feet. With slight increase it went to somewhere between 550-620 feet. I upped it for testing and seems forgot to changed it back before release, will be adjusted in next version for sure. Will review all boats as well.


Im not doubting you, just trying to figure out. Have you made changes? Are you running others mods on top, which could make changes?


I literally just tried it in V2.0 with the crush depth in zon set to 254.75 meters and did not make it anywhere close to 1000 feet. Hull collapsed somewhere between 500-600 feet.


I did state that there is a "unknown factor" affecting crush depth, works in conjunction with the .zon.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

No arguing, I am curious as what I stated is based on TMO Update.

You are telling me that you made it to 1000 feet in a GATO in my TMO Update mod?

to answer your question: not yet.

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Ubisoft\FOTRSU\MODS]

100_FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v1.7pRC2
399_NoScrollNavMap
400_Nihon Kaigun v1.1b
410_Nippon Maru v1.6c
420_Combined Roster

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

to answer your question: not yet.

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Ubisoft\FOTRSU\MODS]

100_FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v1.7pRC2
399_NoScrollNavMap
400_Nihon Kaigun v1.1b
410_Nippon Maru v1.6c
420_Combined Roster

Okay, that explains it. If the GATO can make it to 1000 feet and survive in FOTRS lol Wonder if the team is aware of that, will prob want to change that.