Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[mapuc]

Well I started to imagine things and one imagine lead to another...Here is what I ended up with

Civil war in Russia.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Negotiators for Kyiv and Moscow are holding talks in Belarus but expectations are not high.

Before the meeting, President Zelensky urged Russian troops to lay down their weapons and called for immediate EU membership.

Russia doubles its interest rate to 20% as its currency plunges and experts warn of a possible run on banks.

The UK's defence secretary says Russia could indiscriminately bomb cities as frustration with the campaign grows.

The north-eastern city of Chernihiv faced heavy shelling overnight, but remains in Ukrainian hands.

Reports suggest Belarus is going to deploy its own soldiers to fight.

[Onkel Neal]

You know Putin is schizo, right? All this to keep Ukraine out of NATO. Putin thinks the West is out to conquer Russia. No European or NA country wants to invade and crush Russia. Man, that's crazy, no one cares.

[Jimbuna]

Ukraine invasion: Would Putin press the nuclear button? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60551140

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Ukraine invasion: Would Putin press the nuclear button? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60551140

As I have said before I fear Putin is going to throw 1-2 tactical nukes in Ukraine. 2-4 kiloton strength.

What NATO response will be I don't know.

And I don't know what NATO will do if Belarus also take part in the invasion.

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by mapuc

As I have said before I fear Putin is going to throw 1-2 tactical nukes in Ukraine. 2-4 kiloton strength.

What NATO response will be I don't know.

And I don't know what NATO will do if Belarus also take part in the invasion.

Markus

NATO's response should be identical.

I desperately wish the US would reflagged about 50 A-10s and send them on a run down that Ukraine highway where Putin has all that armor parked.

[Jimbuna]

[mapuc]

Another debate here in Denmark and in Sweden has been about war in Europe in newer time.

Many have said our memory must be short-Who can forget the war in former Yugoslavia.

The response to these people has been

It's a different between a civil war and a war of aggression.

Markus

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

You know Putin is schizo, right? All this to keep Ukraine out of NATO. Putin thinks the West is out to conquer Russia. No European or NA country wants to invade and crush Russia. Man, that's crazy, no one cares.

So true, and b.t.w. no one in the west wanted to have Ukraine in NATO, or the EU


This may change now. If Putin has "success" with anything it will be Ukraine in the NATO, with Finnland probably following suit. Driving more nations into NATO while making Russia an international pariah and creating economical hardship for her people. And all western nations stepping up their defenses in fear.


But fascists and NATO is only a pretext anyway, Putin wants to expand "his" Russia to cold war times, one country after the other: Chechenia, Georgia, the Krim, now Ukraine, and he already threatened the baltic states, and Finnland.


And that is the problem, if he does not succeed now he will probably use thermobaric bombs or even nuclear ones against Ukraine, and then he may probably want to leave this life with a bang. He gives a sh!t about Russia and the people.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Catfish

b.t.w. no one in the west wanted to have Ukraine in NATO

Are you sure !?

Only one month ago there were none who could think of Ukraine being an EU member...today more and more voices in EU has said Ukraine shall become a member as soon as possible.

I imagine the same could very well happens when it comes to a NATO membership. That in a month or so voices are speaking positive for Ukraine being a NATO member.

Edit
Found this written in a Danish article(it's behind a paywall, so I only copy what is readable)

"If Putin makes the threat of a nuclear attack a reality, NATO can no longer keep up, writes former Danish Consul General in St. Petersburg
We are in many ways defenseless if the attack comes. Did NATO learn anything from Crimea?

NATO is arming itself, but it is still too little and too uneven if we are to keep up with Putin

One of the most irrelevant data highlighted when assessing Russia's military strength is that the country's gross domestic product, GDP, is smaller than Italy's. It's a blind spot - because the key is what Russia can and wants. Before the invasion of Ukraine, Russia was waging war in two places - Eastern Ukraine and Syria. The classic definition of a great power - to be able to wage two wars at the same time.
End edit


Markus

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

So true, and b.t.w. no one in the west wanted to have Ukraine in NATO
If Putin has "success" with anything it will be Ukraine in the NATO, with Finnland probably following suit. While making Russia an international pariah and economical hardship.

But fascists and NATO is only a pretext anyway, Putin wants to expand "his" Russia to cold war times, one country after the other: Chechenia, Georgia, the Krim, now Ukraine, and he already threatened the baltic states, and Finnland.


And that is the problem, if he does not succeed now he will probably use thermobaric bombs or even nuclear ones against Ukraine, and then he may probably want to leave this life with a bang. He gives a sh!t about Russia and the people.

Agreed

[Jimbuna]

Vladimir Putin put Russia's nuclear forces on high alert after comments by UK Foreign Secretary Liz Truss and others, the Kremlin has said.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said "unacceptable" remarks were made about possible "clashes" between Nato and Moscow over Russia's attack on Ukraine.

It is unclear precisely which comments by Ms Truss Russia objects to.

On Sunday, she said if Russia was not stopped, other states may be threatened and it could end in conflict with Nato.

A Foreign and Commonwealth Office source told the BBC: "I don't think anything Liz has said warrants that sort of rhetoric or escalation."

They said the foreign secretary had always spoken about Nato as a "defensive alliance" and that the UK needed to support Ukraine.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60558048

[Bilge_Rat]

I'm sure a lot of people want Ukraine in the EU, but that is an emotional response.

The reason why Ukraine is not in the EU is not because of Russia but because of the EU. EU has criterias to admit members and Ukraine does not meet any of them.

Despite having a pro-western govt. for 8 years, Ukraine is still one of the poorest and most corrupt countries in Europe. Its economy never went through the post-soviet restructuring of other economies in Eastern Europe and most of its businesses cannot compete against EU companies. The only reason they survive now is due to domestic protective measures.

Based on various articles written by economists who have looked into to this, if Ukraine was admitted in the EU right now you would have:

1. 2-3 million Ukrainains who would move to western europe and compete for low paying jobs driving up the local unemployment rate (note: these are pre-war numbers, the numbers now would be a lot higher);

2. Wholesale bankruptcies of many Ukrainian companies who cannot compete with EU companies, which would lead to...

3. EU having to pour Billions of Euros in to Ukraine to prop up the Govt and economy (think of Greece and multiply by a factor of 3x to 5x)....

4. a large chunk of which would be siphoned off into offshore accounts since based on various estimates, govt corruption at all level may account for as much as 30% of GDP.

No to mention the fact that Turkey has been a EU candidate for over 15 years and and is way closer to meeting the EU criterias than Ukraine is.

[mapuc]

^ In the news here it is said that Ukraine will use a special EU rule in their application for EU membership.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Then the band played 'Believe it if you like'