Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Red Devil

Putin, according to FRance 24 tv, has put Russian NUCLEAR deterence force on high alert.

If he fires, Moscow will vanish under a mushroom.

Was listening to Ukrainian support here in the UK on GBNews. They already have trucks of aid heading for Poland for the Ukrainian refugees and millions in cybermoney has reached Ukrainian banks.

Three posts up

[Red Devil]

ok thanks. I must have skipped a page.

The following country's have closed their airspaces today, Iceland, Finland, Denmark, Netherlands, Czech, and others. Aeroflot face hundreds of not thousands of miles in fly around routes.

Thousands of foreign volunteers are arriving, or on their way, to Ukraine. So much so, Ukraine President said he was forming foreign legions.

oh yeah, nearly forgot. Elon Musk was asked to make starlink available to all Ukraine, he agreed.

[Skybird]

Its official now, Putin has lost all his remaining senses.

It also raises a question that must be answered but that we cannot like to answer: what do we do if he uses nuclear weapons inside Ukraine?

We cannot afford to just do nothing or just run economic sanctions then. Nuclear attacks in the Ukraine - how do we react to that monstrous crime?

One and two weeks ago I thought this scenario might always be unrealistic, and that Markus was way off with his voiced concerns: that the thing escalates further and draw NATO into the conflict and we then end up in a world war.

But I can no longer rule that out. Putin has put himself into a corner, and he has no other choice anymore than to escalate further if he still wants to "win" the military part of this conflict that he has started.

Thats a dilemma for the whole world now.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Its official now, Putin has lost all his remaining senses.

It also raises a question that must be answered but that we cannot like to answer: what do we do if he uses nuclear weapons inside Ukraine?

We cannot afford to just do nothing or just run economic sanctions then. Nuclear attacks in the Ukraine - how do we react to that monstrous crime?

One and two weeks ago I thought this scenario might always be unrealistic, and that Markus was way off with his voiced concerns: that the thing escalates further and draw NATO into the conflict and we then end up in a world war.

But I can no longer rule that out. Putin has put himself into a corner, and he has no other choice anymore than to escalate further if he still wants to "win" the military part of this conflict that he has started.

Thats a dilemma for the whole world now.

According a Danish article we shouldn't be afraid. The step taken by Putin is nothing more than a message to NATO and Ukraine.
He will not use them said an expert.

I truly hope he's right about that.

Here is the Danish article translated into English

- It is primarily about Russia responding to NATO's increased preparedness and sanctions. It is basically Putin who rolls up his sleeve, flexes and says "see my big upper arm". It is designed to scare, and therefore it is important that we do not let ourselves be intimidated by it, but beat cold water in the blood, it sounds from Breitenbauch.

https://nyheder-tv2-dk.translate.goo..._x_tr_pto=wapp

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has confirmed that negotiations between Kyiv and Moscow will now be held at the Belarusian-Ukrainian border.

A statement from Mr Zelenskyy's office said the two delegations will meet "without preconditions" near the Pripyat River.

The development came after Alexander Lukashenko, the president of Belarus, called Mr Zelenskyy this afternoon.

The statement said Mr Lukashenko "takes responsibility for all planes, helicopters and missiles located on the Belarusian territory to stay on the ground during the time of arrival, negotiations and return of the Ukrainian delegation".

Earlier, Mr Zelenskyy had refused for Ukraine to meet with a Russian delegation in Belarus.

Lukashenko. Who last year rerouted a plane just to get hands on a wanted one. Who just has fallen back into orbiting the sovjet centre of his union with Putin to whiom he now is nothign mroe again thatn just a vasall, like Putin always wanted. I do not think Lukashenko can guarantee what he has promised even if he intends to keep that promise. I hope that Ukrainian delegation knows what they are doing. Even if they stop at the border, it sounds like a suicide squad to me. Nothing in Belarus is trustworthy, absolutely nothing.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

According a Danish article we shouldn't be afraid. The step taken by Putin is nothing more than a message to NATO and Ukraine.
He will not use them said an expert.

Just four days ago experts said he will not invade.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Just four days ago experts said he will not invade.

I have edit my text added this Danish translated article.

Edit
Use of ordinary weapon we will not know of-We can't see or hear bombs being dropped in Ukraine, but use of nuke we will notice-Our electronic would die. I think it will.
End edit

Markus

[Red Devil]

First - Experts? Experts at what? They know nothing but are paid huge sums to know nothing. I remember an 'expert' on tv during the Gulf War. He was a young ,failed and dismissed spotty officer, formerly of the british army, who was useless. His only claim to fame was the gift of the gob. He had only been 'in 5 mins'.

Putin has sent in Chechnian separatists (moslem) into Ukraine with orders to kill, kill, kill. They were observed kneeling in the forest, facing east, praying, prior to embarking across the border. This is not conjecture, it was reported in the Daily Mail by a journalistic witness.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Red Devil

First - Experts? Experts at what? They know nothing but are paid huge sums to know nothing. I remember an 'expert' on tv during the Gulf War. He was a young ,failed and dismissed spotty officer, formerly of the british army, who was useless. His only claim to fame was the gift of the gob. He had only been 'in 5 mins'.

Putin has sent in Chechnian separatists (moslem) into Ukraine with orders to kill, kill, kill. They were observed kneeling in the forest, facing east, praying, prior to embarking across the border. This is not conjecture, it was reported in the Daily Mail by a journalistic witness.

Yes, and it was meanwhile reported this morning/noon that the Ukrainians have found and confronted their commandos either in Kyiv or Kharkiv (I forgot) and put them down.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Andreas86

The Guardian and Sky News reports:

"Putin orders Russia's nuclear deterrence forces on high alert".

"Russian president Vladimir Putin has ordered his military to put the country’s nuclear deterrence forces on high alert in response to “aggressive statements” by NATO countries.

The order, which was announced by the TASS news agency, came at a meeting between Putin, defence minister Sergei Shoigu and chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia Valery Gerasimov.

“Senior officials of the leading NATO countries also allow aggressive statements against our country, therefore I order the Minister of Defense and the Chief of the General Staff [of the Russian Armed Forces] to transfer the deterrence forces of the Russian army to a special mode of combat duty,” Putin said in the statement, which was quoted by state-run TASS.

It is not immediately clear what the “special mode of combat duty” entailed. Putin has warned foreign countries not to interfere in his ongoing invasion of Ukraine, saying it could lead to “consequences they have never seen.” He has positioned anti-air missiles and other advanced missile systems in Belarus and deployed his fleet to the Black Sea in an effort to prevent a western intervention in Ukraine.

Yeah, he isn't shy about using his nukes as threats. He's been doping that quite openly for some years. Man, if that doesn't alert people to the danger Russia poses to the world, I don't know what will. I don't think any Russian/Soviet leader made as many veiled threats as this gangster.

Too many people allow normalcy bias to influence their thinking, "oh, he's not insane, he wouldn't do anything like that, it would mean his own country would be destroyed..." Right. Let me remind you that the last dictator to start a major war in Europe would have used nukes in a heartbeat. As his regime was crumbling he gave a flood of orders to destroy his own country, believing if he could not win, they may as well go down with him.

A limited or even full nuclear exchange is not unlikely. We've all grown up used to sleeping on the edge of a cliff.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Just four days ago experts said he will not invade.

Eh, some maybe but already last weekend(-ish) it was anticipated that they invasion would start on Wednesday.

[mapuc]

One thing is putting a country’s nuclear deterrence forces on high alert another thing is use these weapons.

I'm not an expert on psychology or Russian politics so I can't say if Putin has decided to use 1-2 tactical nukes in Ukraine or if Putin has ordered his military to put the country’s nuclear deterrence forces on high alert as a negotiation weapon in the negotiation with Ukraine.

Markus

[Anvar1061]

[Jimbuna]

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Eh, some maybe but already last weekend(-ish) it was anticipated that they invasion would start on Wednesday.

And in the week before, and two weeks earlier. Rememeber the ocking of Lavrov about Biden'S announcement?

Problem was, it were Americnas making these wanrign and elts face it, Powell and his white-powder-trick and the claimed WMD of Saddam not having been there, still are "fallouting" on the american intel and diplomatic porestige - we do not believe as easily anymore if something comes just from american sources.

Then there was that German admiral two or three weeks ago, who got fired, and next the former generla oinspecteur of the Bundeswerhr, Kujat, also havign been completely wrong. and then quite some more or less "experts" and diplomats as well.

Myself, I at least became increasingly shaky in the past 4, 5 weeks, and until the mid-Olympics or so did not seriously believe the Russians go all in.

In the past 10, 14 days or so before the attack however I was more or less convinced that they would.

In all media outlets, there were many political and former military voices who doubted that the Russians are not bluffing. Those who said it is all real, were clearly in the minority.