decoys

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Moonlight

What file are these decoy thingies in?, I had a quick look through the Sh4 library folder but I came up with nothing as usual.

i thought Decoys was in the Library\USSubparts but now it is not there.
i have to find it now.

[Arlo]

I'll ask for forgiveness in advance, as I readily admit my focus for years in WWII history has been U.S. Naval aircraft and not submarines. It's only been recently (ten years or so) that my curiosity about fleet subs has driven me to explore deeper into facts and those may be shallower than I would like to admit.

If we're talking about U.S. fleet boats and not German U-Boats, I was unaware of the use of any decoy devices during WWII. The earliest reference that I've run across is the Mk 70 MOSS (mobile sub simulator) used in the mid seventies. If anyone can point me to a source that will educate me on U.S. WWII submarine decoy use, I would greatly appreciate it (seriously, filling gaps in my historical knowledge is somewhat of a joy).

Thanks, guys.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Arlo

I'll ask for forgiveness in advance, as I readily admit my focus for years in WWII history has been U.S. Naval aircraft and not submarines. It's only been recently (ten years or so) that my curiosity about fleet subs has driven me to explore deeper into facts and those may be shallower than I would like to admit.

If we're talking about U.S. fleet boats and not German U-Boats, I was unaware of the use of any decoy devices during WWII. The earliest reference that I've run across is the Mk 70 MOSS (mobile sub simulator) used in the mid seventies. If anyone can point me to a source that will educate me on U.S. WWII submarine decoy use, I would greatly appreciate it (seriously, filling gaps in my historical knowledge is somewhat of a joy).

Thanks, guys.

US submarines did have later in war. Germans called them "BOLD", Allies called them SBT(Submarine Bubble Target). I'll have to search my plethora of saved sites, books etc for sources but from what I recall, US began implementing them into the newer Balao boats in mid late 44, Tench class of course. Retrofitted to some of the older Balao/Gato classes. Would not describe them as standard equipment at the time, but would become so, war ended first.

I recall Fluckey mentioning Barb using them on patrol in 1945, also had "Cutie" homing torpedoes. How far things had come in such a short time, with acoustin decoys and homing torpedoes.


In SH 4 stock they came standard from day 1 of the war (lol) which drove me nuts and were then not effective. Various mods have handled them differently. In TMO they become available as an equipment upgrade and in much later war are standard equipment but never found them very helpful. I changed the availability date as it was too early to be standard, cost too little (like the homing torpedo). I adjusted the effectiveness a bit from stock and TMO levels, they work but do not completely nerf the AI. Best use is in late war with convoys had many escorts, can keep a few of them distracted while one or two are on player sub. Quite useful in shallow water as well, which player will be forced to operate in at some point (just as subs were in real life) but of course due to limited number carried, must use them wisely.

[propbeanie]

Sink 'em All and a few other books make mention of them, and 1945 rings a bell for me... I'll try to dig through some references later. They were ~after~ the FM sonar and Hell Bells.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Sink 'em All and a few other books make mention of them, and 1945 rings a bell for me... I'll try to dig through some references later. They were ~after~ the FM sonar and Hell Bells.

weapons that we refer to as decoys, for subs to jam surface hydrophone/sonar detection, were not implemented until late spring 1945. Lockwood discusses the R&D several times in Sink 'Em All.

[1Patriotofmany]

The objective is to put the decoys in between you and the sonar of the hunting ship or ships. Yes they do work. You need to maneuver as others have said. i usually put a fast burst of speed on, change course then SLOW speed. Proceed to deep depth as possible or below the incline layer when I get caught slacking.

[Arlo]

Finally found the quote (2nd hand) of Lockwood mentioning observing a test of a submarine decoy at Pearl Harbor:

"While at Pearl Harbor on April 19th (1945), I took advantage of the opportunity to see test runs of a secret decoy intended to aid submarines in evading counterattacks by escort vessels. Skate and the destroyer escort, Whitman put on the show and, after the submarine acquired the proper technique, she succeeded in eluding the DE in both of the final runs. This was the gadget which I had first seen operating in a fresh water reservoir in August, 1944, and for which we had been praying ever since Its use in enemy waters might have saved the lives of hundreds of submariners and millions of dollars worth of submarines."

~~~~

Japan surrenders on Aug. 14, 1945

He's not talking about general deployment on U.S. submarines during WWII.

[les green01]

you guys are using the wrong decoys it bras and panties just ask the men of the sea tiger

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Arlo

Finally found the quote (2nd hand) of Lockwood mentioning observing a test of a submarine decoy at Pearl Harbor:

"While at Pearl Harbor on April 19th (1945), I took advantage of the opportunity to see test runs of a secret decoy intended to aid submarines in evading counterattacks by escort vessels. Skate and the destroyer escort, Whitman put on the show and, after the submarine acquired the proper technique, she succeeded in eluding the DE in both of the final runs. This was the gadget which I had first seen operating in a fresh water reservoir in August, 1944, and for which we had been praying ever since Its use in enemy waters might have saved the lives of hundreds of submariners and millions of dollars worth of submarines."

~~~~

Japan surrenders on Aug. 14, 1945

He's not talking about general deployment on U.S. submarines during WWII.

yeah, they never really made it out into combat.
it was one of things that Lockwood really agonized about. Felt one or two defensive weapons could have/would have saved boats and crews.
this and the verdammt torpedoes for the first two years of the war. "it is a damn shame that our valiant crews have to sail five thousand miles just to find out that their torpedoes don't work."
but that is another story.