Matching depth of opposing submarines!

[compressioncut]

Originally Posted by Nexus7

I asked this question a few weeks ago and got no utlimative answer... I suspect those procedures are classified?

That's because you don't do it. I am a current, real-life ASW operator and do not exactly determine the depth of the opponent. You can relatively easily determine if it's deep or shallow, above or below the layer, and that's all the depth information you need. You can determine more or less exact depths in certain situations but it is not tactically useful and you certainly can't do it in DW so it doesn't matter.

You have to realize you're dealing with 1,500, maybe 2,000 feet of vertical movement at most. Submarines are not airplanes operating in a 50,000 foot envelope, so anti-air warfare thinking does not apply to ASW.

Nothing personal, but that's a minor pet-peeve I have about answering questions around here - I or Henson or some other current, serving ASW guy or submariner will provide information and no one will believe it.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by compressioncut

Nothing personal, but that's a minor pet-peeve I have about answering questions around here - I or Henson or some other current, serving ASW guy or submariner will provide information and no one will believe it.

I wouldn't worry about it. If one just posted the relevant documents, I have a feeling someone would second guess them, even as they hauled the poster off to prison. It's the nature of computer geeks.

[compressioncut]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

I wouldn't worry about it. If one just posted the NWPs, I have a feeling someone would second guess them, even as they hauled the poster off to prison. It's the nature of computer geeks.

Good point. We call them NCPMs up here (Naval Combat Procedures Manuals).

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by compressioncut

Good point. We call them NCPMs up here (Naval Combat Procedures Manuals).

In think-tank land, we get a whole class of documents. They're probably similar to the things you see. I dunno... this conversation is rapidly going places we probably shouldn't go. It's probably not a smart idea to post exactly what we all have access to on the Internet, ya know? It's a good way to end up with an Iranian calling us up telling us about the kiddie porn they're going to find on our computers if we don't do what they say.

[Nexus7]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

I wouldn't worry about it. If one just posted the relevant documents, I have a feeling someone would second guess them, even as they hauled the poster off to prison. It's the nature of computer geeks.

NOw there's a reason why I have doubts, and I think a good one. I once did talk with a real submarine officer of a TMA station and asked him exactly this question. answer: "of course you can!". But then going into details the answer turned into "we are quickly entering the classified zone here", and so I was denied that info.

But if it looked like deniyng you respect I am sorry, that was not meant to be. I use to consider your and Henson posts of high quality and "thrustable".

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Nexus7

Now there's a reason why I have doubts, and I think a good one. I once did talk with a real submarine officer of a TMA station and asked him exactly this question. answer: "of course you can!". But then going into details the answer turned into "we are quickly entering the classified zone here", and so I was denied that info.

But if it looked like deniyng you respect I am sorry, that was not meant to be. I use to consider your and Henson posts of high quality and "thrustable".

It isn't that it can't be done. A good sonar guy can get a pretty good feel for all kinds of things. The point is that it really isn't necessary, and DW doesn't have the stuff in it you'd need to do it anyhow.

[sonar732]

True SeaQueen...there are a lot of tell tell signs that gives away the depth of a boat and just a few have been discussed. One thing that I've begged for is the sound of hull popping to be "hearable" thru your BB display instead of only that player who's performing the evolution.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by sonar732

True SeaQueen...there are a lot of tell tell signs that gives away the depth of a boat and just a few have been discussed. One thing that I've begged for is the sound of hull popping to be "hearable" thru your BB display instead of only that player who's performing the evolution.

I agree. Transients like that would definitely be the coolest thing they could add to the sim right now. I want to be able to look at the that gram, or listen to my headphones and be able to tell you about every time my opponent twitches. If they did that, I also wish they could take out the TIW call and let me figure it out by looking at the grams and listening.

THAT would rock and it'd make the sonar station even more interesting.

[LuftWolf]

With wargames, as in all computer models, it is possible to be "precisely wrong," with simulations. It makes no sense to attempt to model details which the simulation lacks the tools to exploit, understand, and interact with in a realistic way, and, don't really matter anyway because if you had those tools it'd stop mattering.

I agree with this statement.

I wish I could be more explicit here, but I really can't. It gets into details that I can't talk about. It is sufficient to say, though that in this case, it is actually more accurate to have less detail in the sim.

Wargames like DW, Harpoon, Global Conflict Blue, Sub Command, Jane's Fleet Command, are always abstractions. They're computer models. You can't avoid that. DW makes you a CO, XO, OOD, AO, and FCC all rolled into one. You can't do the job of what in real life takes a small team of individuals. Why bother adding a bunch of stuff that a subordinate would take care of so you wouldn't have to worry about it? It makes no sense.

You actually end up learning less about naval warfare that way.

Well, of course, I'm simply an "amateur tinkerer" as someone said... but regarding DW, this is one interpretation.

But I always find it interesting to hear repeatly how limited DW is, from people who know not very much about it.

DW is designed so that individual missions have specific databases and doctrines assigned to it. As a professional, if you used those tools to their full extent, your ability to use the sim would be significantly improved.