Wolfpack: Project Escorts

Fidd · 04-06-20, 10:45 AM

I can't imagine a worse environment for an expensive and delicate gyroscope than being on a rolling/pitching/yawing Flower Class which drops depth-charges. Lots of them.

Much easier to put a mark of paint on the foremast at the height of the horizon as viewed from the bridge (on a flat calm sea) and just slightly anticipate it passing through the horizon as the boat pitches, I would think the latter, which is not prone to damage or hideously expensive, would be the RN's preferred "system" for this...

Even today, the captains of our submarines are expected to be able, and can, rapidly calculate torpedo firing solutions in their heads, rather than being helpless if all the technology falls-over.

Now, I have no evidence that such a "paint on a stick" system were used, but I think it's a pretty fair bet. I don't have the performance figures of hedgehog, but I'd be interested to know, if someone fancies calculating the parabolas, what error in pitch of the boat at firing would prevent a hit, assuming all else is accurate....

KojiKamori · 04-11-20, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidd

I can't imagine a worse environment for an expensive and delicate gyroscope than being on a rolling/pitching/yawing Flower Class which drops depth-charges. Lots of them.

Much easier to put a mark of paint on the foremast at the height of the horizon as viewed from the bridge (on a flat calm sea) and just slightly anticipate it passing through the horizon as the boat pitches, I would think the latter, which is not prone to damage or hideously expensive, would be the RN's preferred "system" for this...

Even today, the captains of our submarines are expected to be able, and can, rapidly calculate torpedo firing solutions in their heads, rather than being helpless if all the technology falls-over.

Now, I have no evidence that such a "paint on a stick" system were used, but I think it's a pretty fair bet. I don't have the performance figures of hedgehog, but I'd be interested to know, if someone fancies calculating the parabolas, what error in pitch of the boat at firing would prevent a hit, assuming all else is accurate....

Paint on a stick (mast) Wouldn't work due to the fact that the mast is behind the bridge not before. The entire hedgehog was gyro stablized, this much is very clear in a dizzyon of texts, but it doesn't explain how exactly that it was. This is what is still puzzling though I am trying to figure out.

Just a degree off, and I am more than 30 yards off target with pitch. That is either a hit or miss if the time I need to fire is NOW. I am still working at this though have other areas I too can work on till I can gather more information on it all.

Fidd · 04-11-20, 04:11 PM

I can't tell you how it worked on a ship, but I do have a better understanding than most of how aircraft instrument gyro's work, as a retired ATPL/IR and QFI.

I would imagine, (and this is surmise) you'd have a box of 2 or more gyros on the ship, which generate electrical currents proportional to the movements of the ship around the gyros, and these signals are used to drive electric or electro-hydraulic motors, more probably, to stabilise the hedgehog to local-earth vertical (according to the gyros) regardless of the movement of the ship. I doubt this was on all the time, but rather was enabled once an ASDIC contact was made, and disabled to aid reloading, when ideally you'd want the unit remaining to ship vertical, rather than earth-vertical during the reload.

The other way to do it would be to put a large weight as far below the hedgehog as possible, with a connecting structure. Although less accurate, this would have the benefit of being more reliable. A Flower Class is as about a hostile environment for a gyro as you could devise.

The Yanks used a similar system on remote-barbettes on B29's, so that the gunner in a blister could align his sight with a target, generating a signal which the turrets then attempted to bring to 0 difference electrically. This occurred far faster the greater the deviation, so once in the right area the corrections became progressively more accurate.

Pooch · 05-03-20, 03:26 PM

Well, I had no intention of picking this up. I've had enough of U-Boats, honestly. But if you get a few sub killers in here that players can man, yeah, I'm in. A Tribal class destroyer, you say?

Fidd · 05-04-20, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pooch

Well, I had no intention of picking this up. I've had enough of U-Boats, honestly. But if you get a few sub killers in here that players can man, yeah, I'm in. A Tribal class destroyer, you say?

I forget the numbers now, but Tribals carry a lot fewer DC's than the Corvettes. If ever Tribals are modelled as player-operable, then I can see the Tribals being used by moving quickly to the required position to force the u-boat to dive, whilst 1-2 corvettes move in more slowly to take up the search, releasing the Tribal to regain its previous position in the convoy escort screen...

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04-06-20, 10:45 AM	#1
Fidd Captain Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Blighty! Posts: 542 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I can't imagine a worse environment for an expensive and delicate gyroscope than being on a rolling/pitching/yawing Flower Class which drops depth-charges. Lots of them. Much easier to put a mark of paint on the foremast at the height of the horizon as viewed from the bridge (on a flat calm sea) and just slightly anticipate it passing through the horizon as the boat pitches, I would think the latter, which is not prone to damage or hideously expensive, would be the RN's preferred "system" for this... Even today, the captains of our submarines are expected to be able, and can, rapidly calculate torpedo firing solutions in their heads, rather than being helpless if all the technology falls-over. Now, I have no evidence that such a "paint on a stick" system were used, but I think it's a pretty fair bet. I don't have the performance figures of hedgehog, but I'd be interested to know, if someone fancies calculating the parabolas, what error in pitch of the boat at firing would prevent a hit, assuming all else is accurate....

04-11-20, 04:11 PM	#3
Fidd Captain Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Blighty! Posts: 542 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I can't tell you how it worked on a ship, but I do have a better understanding than most of how aircraft instrument gyro's work, as a retired ATPL/IR and QFI. I would imagine, (and this is surmise) you'd have a box of 2 or more gyros on the ship, which generate electrical currents proportional to the movements of the ship around the gyros, and these signals are used to drive electric or electro-hydraulic motors, more probably, to stabilise the hedgehog to local-earth vertical (according to the gyros) regardless of the movement of the ship. I doubt this was on all the time, but rather was enabled once an ASDIC contact was made, and disabled to aid reloading, when ideally you'd want the unit remaining to ship vertical, rather than earth-vertical during the reload. The other way to do it would be to put a large weight as far below the hedgehog as possible, with a connecting structure. Although less accurate, this would have the benefit of being more reliable. A Flower Class is as about a hostile environment for a gyro as you could devise. The Yanks used a similar system on remote-barbettes on B29's, so that the gunner in a blister could align his sight with a target, generating a signal which the turrets then attempted to bring to 0 difference electrically. This occurred far faster the greater the deviation, so once in the right area the corrections became progressively more accurate.

05-03-20, 03:26 PM	#4
Pooch Watch Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 24 Downloads: 197 Uploads: 0	Well, I had no intention of picking this up. I've had enough of U-Boats, honestly. But if you get a few sub killers in here that players can man, yeah, I'm in. A Tribal class destroyer, you say?