Things to consider when developing SH4

joea · 06-12-06, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MENTAT

I remember There was a game in 1985's or so, it was called "Battle of Britain:Their finest hour". It was the game of my life. You were personally planning the attack on England on a strategic map and you were jumping one of the planes in a group and actually fighting for it. The success of the remaining attacks for that day (it was fulfilled by AI after your mission) was 70% influenced by your attack. if you do good, they do good, if you fail, somehow they were so. There were some percentages of the efficiencies of airfields, factories, railways etc. at the end, and if you were able to drop the percentages to a certain level in a given limited time, you succeeded. (Actually i managed to do that and given a start to the invasion of England..those were the days..) Why not this works for the SH4 ? That will be the real "Career" play!

A little increase of strategic elements of this game makes it flawless, a masterpiece!

Some good ideas, that have been partially covered in mods but would be great in SHIV.

I strongly disagree wtih the last one...it's akward and unrealistic. Especially the part about the AI does as well or poorly as you. One pilot or sub cannot determine the war. A strategic level game for example, will have AI armies rated historically. You are commanding the Luftwaffe in 1939 and have some of the best trained pilots so you are sure they will do well in the taks you choose for them. In 1944 however, you have a lot of rookies and not enough trained pilots or advanced planes (jets lots of older planes) so you have to deal with that as a General. Sorry it doesn't make sense one person's skill should reflect at the operational or strategic level. This is why most board or computer games stick to one level, and sims are usually at the tactical level.

This is not cut and dried of course, Steel Beasts allows the player to command a brigade IIRC, while you are in your tank as well...and Falcon's campaign provides a great backdrop to your flying. Certainly having war news and the like would provide a backgorund canvas for immersion purposes but I don't agree with changing history.

HunterICX · 06-12-06, 10:47 AM

The idea about an Full 3D sub is nice, I would love to see the Diesel Engines Work

and that about crewmembers walking through the Sub is also something I would like to see. like your in ur command room and an Repair crew comes to you and tell ''The big ass hole in our nose has been fixed sir''
Commander ''With what?''
Crew: With Bernhard Sir! he put on an Raincoat and uses an Straw to breath and is lying on the Hole sir, Just dont dive too deep''

and to Add something
when you destroyed an Ship I wanna hear the Crew Cheer!
comon sinking an big ship must trigger some Happyness

Egan · 06-12-06, 12:02 PM

Some of your points are fair enough. I do disagree with the idea of being able to change the war or, indeed, 'hollywood' it up basically because I find the game a lot less hardcore than I would like already. I definately don't go for the idea of 'alternate history' either. It's something I have never liked in other games and it would probably stop me buying another Silent Hunter title if it ever happened. That is just me, though. I am the King-Geek.

A 'less realism' option is one thing but only if there was a 'full hardcore' option as well..

I think Drebbel has made an important point about communications. I would like to be able to monitor international shipping traffic on the radio, not just a few scripted messages but dynamic comms from shipping all over the place. it would help immersion no end.

Thinking though about your first point: I don't think anyone is against the concept of crew management - just the way it has been implimented in the game. It needs an overhaul for sure but it is a major step in the right direction. A full 3d interior would also be very nice.

Also, I was under the imression that there was a game already coming out that uses the Sh3 engine but has you running the naval war at strategic level? I can't remember the name - maybe it was no more than vapour-ware? I'm sure someone else knows what I'm talking about

Gizzmoe · 06-12-06, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egan

Also, I was under the imression that there was a game already coming out that uses the Sh3 engine but has you running the naval war at strategic level? I can't remember the name - maybe it was no more than vapour-ware? I'm sure someone else knows what I'm talking about

Subwolves:
http://www.subwolves.com

Egan · 06-12-06, 12:32 PM

Thanks Gizzmoe.That is the one.

donut · 06-12-06, 01:04 PM

I like the the change the watch crews idea,topside,engine rm.,& dive stations. The crew in SHIII are to zombie like,don't even know missing watch is a violation of UCMJ.,& Captain's Mast,is required.USN. discipline required.

In SHIV.
ALSO:
Torpedo's do not bounce off thin hulled merchants,if they do not detonate on impact,they punch a hole in the hull,and go off on time out,end of run time,if set to impact.(Real life) Set to magnetic torp.might dent chine,& deflect off in rough seas though,or run under,for a miss.SHCE did not have magnetic detonates,quire? :hmm:

MENTAT · 06-12-06, 02:02 PM

Thanx for your valuable comments.

I knew it would cause lots of reactions to offer an alternative history but hey, i am talking about an "option" here. Relax and keep in mind that there will always be the "historical" option to go for you guys

Thanx RLS669 i feel the same way. I am not talking about the <Rambo> or <Doom> here. I dont mean to fight the entire world with a shotgun single handedly. (and bring the victory to Hitler with my bare hands) I just want to feel that "with every single ship i waste, we are closer to win" We dont have it in SH3. If we are talking about a "realistic" simulation, I'm sure U-boat Captains had the same thing on their minds. They hunt in that piece of hell just for victory of their nation. They feel that satisfaction with every single merchant they sunk. If they knew they will loose the war at the end, no one in the earth would concieve them to go for another hunt.

I would loved to have a pat in my back when i return to base from my commander while examining statistics about how u-boats are efficient, England logistics situation and other achievments on map. Strong zones, weak zones, luftwaffe coverage efficiency etc.

On the other hand, what do we have here? One more merchant for a couple of more renowns to change my... batteries?? and one more for a Flak Zwiling! ... How realistic!

Aint my offer is far more realistic? And Just admit it, you feel an irresistable pleasure for new upgrades and equipment when returning to base. I simply offer you more!

Also i dont think it will be harder to make other nations side to be available? Same game engine, some interior changes, languages change, uniforms and flags will change and different missions and starting base will change. (That is currently made possible with lots of mods already)

And i am completely agree with you donut. The crew is sure like Zombies.

Unfortunately there are instances of luftwaffe transported food, ammunition and mail to submarines in history Rosencrantz. Yet ı dont know how they kept pizzas hot all the way along.:rotfl:

And more suggestions:
*I dont want to see just an office while in base. I want to be able to go nightclub, chat with other captains, go to pens and watch the progress (animated) while my boat is being repaired/upgraded. imagine lots of people on her some welding, some directing a crane, torpedoes loaded! This game needs lots of eye candy for sure!

*I want to see aircraft pumping steel to submarines! They just drop a DC and run away! Its no different than shooting birds out there. I never deal with wounded on deck. Also it must be made possible to have disasters in rough waters. Men wounded on deck, man fell in sea! etc.

*Does anyone noticed, in english crew language, nobody shouts ALARM when crash dive ordered?! (Its happening in German tough)

*Museum must be improved. It is much primitive as it is currently.

*Recognition manual: Shouldnt it include armaments and stuff like that also?

*Unable to touch anything in command room pisses me off!

*What happened to release some oil, some clothes and wood pieces through a torpedo tube to surface to fool destroyers while lying silent in deep?

*Morale is nothing to consider? What is it for in SH3? More stats of seaman in SH4 required.

Drebbel · 06-12-06, 02:28 PM

Quote:

*What happened to release some oil, some clothes and wood pieces through a torpedo tube to surface to fool destroyers while lying silent in deep?

Oh NO, not that discussion again

Egan · 06-12-06, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MENTAT

Unfortunately there are instances of luftwaffe transported food, ammunition and mail to submarines in history Rosencrantz.

It is the first time I have heard of it. I'd be interested in hearing more about it. Do you have a source?

The Morale in the the game is broken to a certain extent. Although it is fixed in the NYGM 2.0 mod.

donut · 06-12-06, 03:45 PM

@MENTAT Sir

Quote:

*Unable to touch anything in command room pisses me off!

If you put your courser on a switch,or instrument,& it turns red,you have touched it,and it works.Among many other things,you can select tubes ,& fire torps from WO station.

In the comand room,try Engine telegraph,I recall it works also

MENTAT · 06-14-06, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egan

It is the first time I have heard of it. I'd be interested in hearing more about it. Do you have a source?

Egan, please find my source in the below:

<Herzog, Bodo. Die deutschen U-Boote 1906-1945. Munich: J.F. Lehmanns
Verlag, 1959. Copyright: J.F. Lehmanns Verlag, Munich, 1959.>

In the section titled “Cooperation Between Aircraft and U-boats” (Page
171) there is a photo of U-255 and the BV-138 together.

The photo is taken from a distance and you can’t see exactly what’s going
on however on page 213 there is a better picture and you can see what
appears to be a fuel hose being played out by the U-boat.

Back on page 171 there is also an intriguing photo of a WWI U-boat S.M.
U-12 with seaplane 204 apparently sitting on its deck!

I have placed photos (and an illustration) related to airsupply to rapidshare server which you can find the link below:

http://rapidshare.de/files/23019651/airsupply.rar.html

06-12-06, 10:47 AM	#2
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	The idea about an Full 3D sub is nice, I would love to see the Diesel Engines Work and that about crewmembers walking through the Sub is also something I would like to see. like your in ur command room and an Repair crew comes to you and tell ''The big ass hole in our nose has been fixed sir'' Commander ''With what?'' Crew: With Bernhard Sir! he put on an Raincoat and uses an Straw to breath and is lying on the Hole sir, Just dont dive too deep'' and to Add something when you destroyed an Ship I wanna hear the Crew Cheer! comon sinking an big ship must trigger some Happyness __________________

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06-12-06, 12:02 PM	#3
Egan Admiral Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,020 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Some of your points are fair enough. I do disagree with the idea of being able to change the war or, indeed, 'hollywood' it up basically because I find the game a lot less hardcore than I would like already. I definately don't go for the idea of 'alternate history' either. It's something I have never liked in other games and it would probably stop me buying another Silent Hunter title if it ever happened. That is just me, though. I am the King-Geek. A 'less realism' option is one thing but only if there was a 'full hardcore' option as well.. I think Drebbel has made an important point about communications. I would like to be able to monitor international shipping traffic on the radio, not just a few scripted messages but dynamic comms from shipping all over the place. it would help immersion no end. Thinking though about your first point: I don't think anyone is against the concept of crew management - just the way it has been implimented in the game. It needs an overhaul for sure but it is a major step in the right direction. A full 3d interior would also be very nice. Also, I was under the imression that there was a game already coming out that uses the Sh3 engine but has you running the naval war at strategic level? I can't remember the name - maybe it was no more than vapour-ware? I'm sure someone else knows what I'm talking about

06-12-06, 12:32 PM	#5
Egan Admiral Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,020 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Thanks Gizzmoe.That is the one.

06-12-06, 01:04 PM	#6
donut The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The Shifting, Whispering Sands, NM Posts: 1,463 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I like the the change the watch crews idea,topside,engine rm.,& dive stations. The crew in SHIII are to zombie like,don't even know missing watch is a violation of UCMJ.,& Captain's Mast,is required.USN. discipline required. In SHIV. ALSO: Torpedo's do not bounce off thin hulled merchants,if they do not detonate on impact,they punch a hole in the hull,and go off on time out,end of run time,if set to impact.(Real life) Set to magnetic torp.might dent chine,& deflect off in rough seas though,or run under,for a miss.SHCE did not have magnetic detonates,quire? :hmm:

06-12-06, 02:02 PM	#7
MENTAT Sparky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mediterranean Posts: 156 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	Thanx for your valuable comments. I knew it would cause lots of reactions to offer an alternative history but hey, i am talking about an "option" here. Relax and keep in mind that there will always be the "historical" option to go for you guys Thanx RLS669 i feel the same way. I am not talking about the <Rambo> or <Doom> here. I dont mean to fight the entire world with a shotgun single handedly. (and bring the victory to Hitler with my bare hands) I just want to feel that "with every single ship i waste, we are closer to win" We dont have it in SH3. If we are talking about a "realistic" simulation, I'm sure U-boat Captains had the same thing on their minds. They hunt in that piece of hell just for victory of their nation. They feel that satisfaction with every single merchant they sunk. If they knew they will loose the war at the end, no one in the earth would concieve them to go for another hunt. I would loved to have a pat in my back when i return to base from my commander while examining statistics about how u-boats are efficient, England logistics situation and other achievments on map. Strong zones, weak zones, luftwaffe coverage efficiency etc. On the other hand, what do we have here? One more merchant for a couple of more renowns to change my... batteries?? and one more for a Flak Zwiling! ... How realistic! Aint my offer is far more realistic? And Just admit it, you feel an irresistable pleasure for new upgrades and equipment when returning to base. I simply offer you more! Also i dont think it will be harder to make other nations side to be available? Same game engine, some interior changes, languages change, uniforms and flags will change and different missions and starting base will change. (That is currently made possible with lots of mods already) And i am completely agree with you donut. The crew is sure like Zombies. Unfortunately there are instances of luftwaffe transported food, ammunition and mail to submarines in history Rosencrantz. Yet ı dont know how they kept pizzas hot all the way along.:rotfl: And more suggestions: I dont want to see just an office while in base. I want to be able to go nightclub, chat with other captains, go to pens and watch the progress (animated) while my boat is being repaired/upgraded. imagine lots of people on her some welding, some directing a crane, torpedoes loaded! This game needs lots of eye candy for sure! I want to see aircraft pumping steel to submarines! They just drop a DC and run away! Its no different than shooting birds out there. I never deal with wounded on deck. Also it must be made possible to have disasters in rough waters. Men wounded on deck, man fell in sea! etc. Does anyone noticed, in english crew language, nobody shouts ALARM when crash dive ordered?! (Its happening in German tough) Museum must be improved. It is much primitive as it is currently. Recognition manual: Shouldnt it include armaments and stuff like that also? Unable to touch anything in command room pisses me off! What happened to release some oil, some clothes and wood pieces through a torpedo tube to surface to fool destroyers while lying silent in deep? Morale is nothing to consider? What is it for in SH3? More stats of seaman in SH4 required.