A Public Note to Self: LWAMI4 In Progress Issues (HELP ME!)

sonar732 · 06-10-06, 11:20 AM

Luftwolf,

I have a good friend who states that the helo doctorine is messed up. He says that his testing has consistantly shown that they can ping without slowing down or stoping to drop the sensor.

All in all, I like the list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luftwolf

Add separate torpedo sounds for electric/non-electric and perhaps some unique torpedo sounds for the broadband sonar .

We spent hours training our ears to this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luftwolf

Add Missile Launch Warning ping to all underwater launched missiles and update SubrocAttack doctrine to take advantage of this.

Is this the transient warning that I've been begging for since inception?

LuftWolf · 06-10-06, 01:40 PM

Quote:

I have a good friend who states that the helo doctorine is messed up. He says that his testing has consistantly shown that they can ping without slowing down or stoping to drop the sensor.

Yup, I've known this for some time. Easy to fix.

Molon Labe · 06-10-06, 01:55 PM

The "ping" on missile lauch seems a bit gamey to me. I'm happy with the BB noise as it is, although a true transient alert would be nice (and I know only SCS can do that). I do have a preference for things that work over "good-enough" workarounds, though. And making a sonar ping get transmitted by a missile launch is the sort of thing that just seems sloppy and kills immersion.

swimsalot · 06-10-06, 03:10 PM

Wow, what a list, I'll be honest I don't know what half of that is, but good to see you're working on it.
Keep it up!

LuftWolf · 06-11-06, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

The "ping" on missile lauch seems a bit gamey to me. I'm happy with the BB noise as it is, although a true transient alert would be nice (and I know only SCS can do that). I do have a preference for things that work over "good-enough" workarounds, though. And making a sonar ping get transmitted by a missile launch is the sort of thing that just seems sloppy and kills immersion.

Well, considering that I've been hearing about this for some time, that is the need to make some kind of automatic missile warning, it's interesting that this opinion should be expressed.

I'm not really the one that has been pushing for this really... I'm fine with how it is now like 70%.

The thing is that we have the TIW warning, so not having an automated missile warning seems to be inconsistent with this. Perhaps I will make another attempt at giving a genuine TIW warning on missile launches. :hmm:

Molon Labe · 06-11-06, 08:40 AM

I agree that it's inconsistent that we don't have one, but I've always believed that if you can't do something right....

LoBlo · 06-11-06, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

The "ping" on missile lauch seems a bit gamey to me. I'm happy with the BB noise as it is, although a true transient alert would be nice (and I know only SCS can do that). I do have a preference for things that work over "good-enough" workarounds, though. And making a sonar ping get transmitted by a missile launch is the sort of thing that just seems sloppy and kills immersion.

Well, considering that I've been hearing about this for some time, that is the need to make some kind of automatic missile warning, it's interesting that this opinion should be expressed.

I'm not really the one that has been pushing for this really... I'm fine with how it is now like 70%.

The thing is that we have the TIW warning, so not having an automated missile warning seems to be inconsistent with this. Perhaps I will make another attempt at giving a genuine TIW warning on missile launches. :hmm:

An interesting undertaking. Here's hoping it works. What if the ping sound effect was substituted with a launch sound effect? Would that be obtainable. The missile launches, gives a ping (which because of the Sound assigned actually sounds like a launch transit) and then goes airborne.

Question is... how do we replace the ping with the sound of our choice?

Wim Libaers · 06-11-06, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

The thing is that we have the TIW warning, so not having an automated missile warning seems to be inconsistent with this. Perhaps I will make another attempt at giving a genuine TIW warning on missile launches. :hmm:

Would it be possible to spawn a really loud torpedo when a missile is launched, and to make it disappear again after the missile leaves the water?

LuftWolf · 06-12-06, 12:30 AM

If I could get the missiles to fire torpedoes if fired underwater and not fire torpedoes when fired above water, this would be easy.

Here is the problem. The AI simply does not fire at nothing. I can't get the missile to fire the torpedo unless they have a track.

Here's where it gets interesting.

For SUBROC missiles, this is no problem. Since they are classified in the database as a "snapshot" weapon, the target track is provided to them immediately at launch, so they start life with a NEWTRACK from the NSE, meaning they will launch the torpedo. The problem is, they already have a torpedo, and the weapon-selective <Attack "[weaponname]"> command doesn't work for weapons launching other weapons, only Firebest, and it seems the SUBROC missile wants to fire its actual torpedo payload in most situations first.

The problem for non-subroc missiles is that they have no track when they start life.

The way this solution is shaping up, for non-subroc missiles, I would have to give a very short range visual sensor to detect the launching platform and use the IF tgtsource $= "visual" THEN Firebest ENDIF conditional (very similiar to the wirewatch features put into the wireguided torpedoes). Also, I could use a depth-based conditional for either the missile to fire or for the dummy torpedo to simply dissappear if fired above the surface before hitting the water. I think this can simply be added over top of the relevant missile doctrines without any issues, but I could always be wrong of course.

For subrocs, I dunno... I'll probably have to tweak the database, but its pretty risky, I'd have to be pretty confident the actual torpedo would never get launched.

From a coding standpoint, the missile ping on launch is SOOO much more elegant, and would achieve exactly the same freaking thing, Molon. I really like the idea of changing the ping sound to something else BUT i have found no way to control the ping sound and that other platforms share the same ping... I mean, ideally, I could just have no sound at all, and simply allow players to get a newtrack from the active intercept autocrew, which I assume everyone uses (cough cough the GNSF needs get with it on this...).

In this case, I have two options that both suck, mostly. But if I could make either one work the way we want without messing anything up, it'd be pretty good I think.

Let me see... I'm a bit burned out from the torpedo work (don't worry), so I'm happy to do something in which my expectation of success is not quite as high.

Cheers,
David

LuftWolf · 06-12-06, 03:17 AM

Ok, the "best" overall way that I have found so far is to give it an active sonar sensor and delete the ping sound from the sfx.agg so that it is reported strictly by the Active Intercept Autocrew.

Now this has a big problem associated with it. The game sound engine is constructed in such a way that subs, ships, and torpedoes are assigned their own ping sounds that can be edited individually, and then everything else left over gets assigned the generic ping sound. SO... deleting the ping sound for the missile also means no ping sound for any helos or buoys... which is a BIG BIG "hell no!" for doing it this way.

I also am beginning to agree with molon... how big of a pain in the ass would it be to hear a pinging every time you launched missiles. Yikes!

So, the only way left to go is to try to add some kind of TIW (which is automatically not reported to the launching platform, even if the torpedo is launched by a weapon launched by the launching platform)... and this means getting messy. You have no idea how hard it is to try to get missiles to launch torpedoes at nothing!

:p

06-10-06, 01:55 PM	#3
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	The "ping" on missile lauch seems a bit gamey to me. I'm happy with the BB noise as it is, although a true transient alert would be nice (and I know only SCS can do that). I do have a preference for things that work over "good-enough" workarounds, though. And making a sonar ping get transmitted by a missile launch is the sort of thing that just seems sloppy and kills immersion. __________________

06-11-06, 08:40 AM	#6
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	I agree that it's inconsistent that we don't have one, but I've always believed that if you can't do something right.... __________________

06-12-06, 12:30 AM	#9
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	If I could get the missiles to fire torpedoes if fired underwater and not fire torpedoes when fired above water, this would be easy. Here is the problem. The AI simply does not fire at nothing. I can't get the missile to fire the torpedo unless they have a track. Here's where it gets interesting. For SUBROC missiles, this is no problem. Since they are classified in the database as a "snapshot" weapon, the target track is provided to them immediately at launch, so they start life with a NEWTRACK from the NSE, meaning they will launch the torpedo. The problem is, they already have a torpedo, and the weapon-selective <Attack "[weaponname]"> command doesn't work for weapons launching other weapons, only Firebest, and it seems the SUBROC missile wants to fire its actual torpedo payload in most situations first. The problem for non-subroc missiles is that they have no track when they start life. The way this solution is shaping up, for non-subroc missiles, I would have to give a very short range visual sensor to detect the launching platform and use the IF tgtsource $= "visual" THEN Firebest ENDIF conditional (very similiar to the wirewatch features put into the wireguided torpedoes). Also, I could use a depth-based conditional for either the missile to fire or for the dummy torpedo to simply dissappear if fired above the surface before hitting the water. I think this can simply be added over top of the relevant missile doctrines without any issues, but I could always be wrong of course. For subrocs, I dunno... I'll probably have to tweak the database, but its pretty risky, I'd have to be pretty confident the actual torpedo would never get launched. From a coding standpoint, the missile ping on launch is SOOO much more elegant, and would achieve exactly the same freaking thing, Molon. I really like the idea of changing the ping sound to something else BUT i have found no way to control the ping sound and that other platforms share the same ping... I mean, ideally, I could just have no sound at all, and simply allow players to get a newtrack from the active intercept autocrew, which I assume everyone uses (cough cough the GNSF needs get with it on this...). In this case, I have two options that both suck, mostly. But if I could make either one work the way we want without messing anything up, it'd be pretty good I think. Let me see... I'm a bit burned out from the torpedo work (don't worry), so I'm happy to do something in which my expectation of success is not quite as high. Cheers, David __________________ LW

06-12-06, 03:17 AM	#10
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Ok, the "best" overall way that I have found so far is to give it an active sonar sensor and delete the ping sound from the sfx.agg so that it is reported strictly by the Active Intercept Autocrew. Now this has a big problem associated with it. The game sound engine is constructed in such a way that subs, ships, and torpedoes are assigned their own ping sounds that can be edited individually, and then everything else left over gets assigned the generic ping sound. SO... deleting the ping sound for the missile also means no ping sound for any helos or buoys... which is a BIG BIG "hell no!" for doing it this way. I also am beginning to agree with molon... how big of a pain in the ass would it be to hear a pinging every time you launched missiles. Yikes! So, the only way left to go is to try to add some kind of TIW (which is automatically not reported to the launching platform, even if the torpedo is launched by a weapon launched by the launching platform)... and this means getting messy. You have no idea how hard it is to try to get missiles to launch torpedoes at nothing! :p __________________ LW Last edited by LuftWolf; 06-12-06 at 03:19 AM.

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06-10-06, 03:10 PM	#4
swimsalot Helmsman Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle, wa usa Posts: 102 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Wow, what a list, I'll be honest I don't know what half of that is, but good to see you're working on it. Keep it up!