[REL] Real Fleet Boat 2.0

[s7rikeback]

Originally Posted by Templar

I think it's this here.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/dow...o=file&id=5491

Afraid not, that's the Conte Verde unittype fix only.
Good spot though...
Hopefully Marco, can save whats left of my sanity..

[fitzcarraldo]

Here my copy in MF:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/abjgl...l2010.rar/file

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

[shortpeople]

well I played a campaign with rfb 2.0.
one patrol starting out of Pearl at beginning of war.

I very much appreciate the time, effort and brilliant thought that went into this mod. I really like tweaks to the crew management. I like the gauges, TDC interface and door open/close feature. I think the difficulty with map markings reduced, torpedo headings on attack map removed etc struck a pretty good balance. My torpedo hit rate was pretty low... somewhere just above 50%, but I chalk that up to my own capabilities rather than the mod being too difficult.

Criticisms:
1) I don't think I like the damage model. I do really like the idea of a damage model that emphasizes ship structure and torpedo placement over hit points. But I think RFB has done a little overkill in trying to make sinkings realistic at the expense of fun gameplay. I hit several SMALL freighters with 2 torpedoes each and followed up with many, many deck gun rounds. In the end, returned to port with only one sinking.... and that sinking took about a full day after two torpedo hits and about … oh I lost count of... deck gun rounds. Significant number of holes below the waterline from gun fire and two gaping holes from torpedoes and the thing just wouldn't sink. Again, this was a small freighter. Maybe realistic? But in the end I was bored. I think I saw some similar criticisms of RFB elsewhere on this thread and others. I don't know if anyone is still managing this mod or not. But if they are... I might recommend adding the lucky shot back to the model and upping the gain on compartment flooding a little.

2) The Escorts were inept. Maybe this was intentional of the MODer(s) for the beginning of the war? I hit a large convoy at night several times, both on the surface and below. I could put myself between escorts and freighters with ease, with a combination of flank speed at periscope depth and surface runs as close as 750 yards from the escorts. I even opened up with deckgun on the freighters within this range of escorts. Never a search light. Never return fire. Never a depth charge. They did seem to change course every now and then to look for me... but no attack. I heard one or two pings over the course of a 12 hour attack. It was nice relief from being detected in the stock game by escorts while my boat was sitting silent, periscope down and using sonar to track and wait for a 90 AOB shot (ridiculousness of the stock game). But RFB was very much in the opposite extreme.

I really do appreciate the effort that MODers put into their work. And I definitely respect the ideas put into this mod. But after a single patrol I found myself asking if I had more fun with the stock game or this mod. I lean toward the stock game.

Thanks to the MODers for giving players the opportunity to check out their work though. I have to respect the time folks put into these things.

I think I'm going to give the TMO with training wheels a shot next.

Salute!
ShortPeople.

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by shortpeople

well I played a campaign with rfb 2.0.
one patrol starting out of Pearl at beginning of war.

I very much appreciate the time, effort and brilliant thought that went into this mod. I really like tweaks to the crew management. I like the gauges, TDC interface and door open/close feature. I think the difficulty with map markings reduced, torpedo headings on attack map removed etc struck a pretty good balance. My torpedo hit rate was pretty low... somewhere just above 50%, but I chalk that up to my own capabilities rather than the mod being too difficult.

Criticisms:
1) I don't think I like the damage model. I do really like the idea of a damage model that emphasizes ship structure and torpedo placement over hit points. But I think RFB has done a little overkill in trying to make sinkings realistic at the expense of fun gameplay. I hit several SMALL freighters with 2 torpedoes each and followed up with many, many deck gun rounds. In the end, returned to port with only one sinking.... and that sinking took about a full day after two torpedo hits and about … oh I lost count of... deck gun rounds. Significant number of holes below the waterline from gun fire and two gaping holes from torpedoes and the thing just wouldn't sink. Again, this was a small freighter. Maybe realistic? But in the end I was bored. I think I saw some similar criticisms of RFB elsewhere on this thread and others. I don't know if anyone is still managing this mod or not. But if they are... I might recommend adding the lucky shot back to the model and upping the gain on compartment flooding a little.

2) The Escorts were inept. Maybe this was intentional of the MODer(s) for the beginning of the war? I hit a large convoy at night several times, both on the surface and below. I could put myself between escorts and freighters with ease, with a combination of flank speed at periscope depth and surface runs as close as 750 yards from the escorts. I even opened up with deckgun on the freighters within this range of escorts. Never a search light. Never return fire. Never a depth charge. They did seem to change course every now and then to look for me... but no attack. I heard one or two pings over the course of a 12 hour attack. It was nice relief from being detected in the stock game by escorts while my boat was sitting silent, periscope down and using sonar to track and wait for a 90 AOB shot (ridiculousness of the stock game). But RFB was very much in the opposite extreme.

I really do appreciate the effort that MODers put into their work. And I definitely respect the ideas put into this mod. But after a single patrol I found myself asking if I had more fun with the stock game or this mod. I lean toward the stock game.

Thanks to the MODers for giving players the opportunity to check out their work though. I have to respect the time folks put into these things.

I think I'm going to give the TMO with training wheels a shot next.

Salute!
ShortPeople.

There are settings and many in-game variables that effect how hard or difficult a campaign can be.

What is the initial difficulty setting you select when starting a campaign (Easy, Hard, Very Hard)?

Are you running RFB with another campaign mod (RFB with RSRD, for example), or just RFB by itself?

Is it a patched version of RFB?

What is your definition of "small" freighters? <2k tons, 2k tons, 3k tons, 5k tons, etc?

The 3 inch deck gun is virtually ineffective against anything except the smallest of the "small" ships you'll encounter. Junks, old split freighters less than 2k tons. Anything bigger and you'll have to empty the entire 3" magazine and land every shot just to show an effect. Frustrating, yes, but this is not entirely unrealistic.

The 3" gun is not that much different than the 90mm guns on some tanks of the period. Fine against tiny vessels with almost no compartmentalization (or none at all). Different story against moderately sized vessels with DC parties, compartmentalization, and reserve buoyancy, especially tankers.

I almost never use the 3" gun against anything except maybe coastal fishing boats stumbled upon, and even then I just avoid them as they often aren't worth the time. I've played campaigns where I never once fired the 3" as a reasonable opportunity never materialized. Using it to finish off an already crippled, sinking ship from torp hits isn't going to make things more expedient. That's just how it is.

The 4" gun works noticeably better, and the 5" wet mount even more so, but they are still very much a secondary weapon only. You shouldn't rely on them for sinking moderately sized vessels.

As for torpedo hits, my experience has shown that two torpedo hits are enough to sink any freighter or tanker (maybe three for the large 10k ton, 20 knot tankers), with sinking occurring between less than ten minutes up to around 15 to 20 minutes or more, depending on the location of hull hits. I've never once seen a sinking take a "full day". The longest sinking I remember was roughly one and a half or two hours, this after two hits on a fore-mentioned 10k ton tanker with one hit striking near the tip of the bow. I could only turn and chase it as it turned away and track it until it started to slow down, before coming to a stop from progressive flooding and eventually sinking.

Hits in the extremes of the hull (on the tip of the bow, or where the rudder and prop are located) are not likely to sink the ship. The former will slow it down, and there are usually flooding compartments in the bow of most ships anyway to help with stability and sea keeping, while the latter will likely immobilize the ship. Repeated hits in the same location will yield negligible additional results, if any at all.

A good spread striking along the length of the hull will always yield good results. Of course, you'll need a solid solution to do this, and torpedoes that do the job once they get to the target... Using full manual firing I usually turn the gyro angle left or right 1 degree in the direction the target ship is moving for each torpedo fired, with the first torp striking the rear of the hull and the last striking near the bow. Very satisfying when you get it right and the torps work.

I play on Very Hard settings, external view turned off, etc., starting a campaign in one of the Porpoise Class boats out of Manila, and I can't underestimate the escorts, particularly destroyers. I usually play very conservatively when tracking escorted convoys but still, especially at night, I'm often spotted and chased by escorts before I expect it. Especially in calm conditions. However, when it's rough out at night you will be very difficult to spot as your bow splash and rooster tail is almost indiscernible at a distance from whitecaps cresting on wave tops. Even in daylight you're more difficult to spot in such conditions, but only a bit more so than in calm conditions.

If you position correctly you can almost always get yourself inside a convoy, as long as you're patient and an escort doesn't happen to drive so close to you. You'll always see them before they see you, and can act accordingly.

Sorry for the long-winded answer but there is no short way of addressing this, and I haven't even covered l lot of things!

[shortpeople]

Originally Posted by Treetop64

There are settings and many in-game variables that effect how hard or difficult a campaign can be.

What is the initial difficulty setting you select when starting a campaign (Easy, Hard, Very Hard)?

Are you running RFB with another campaign mod (RFB with RSRD, for example), or just RFB by itself?

Is it a patched version of RFB?

Ahoy Treetop!
difficulty was Hard
RFB2.0+patch, Jap convoy fix, RSRDC, Medals fix for RFB.

On sizes of ships, the one that went down was definitely Haruna Maru 1549 Tons. Two hits, one just in front of the superstructure, one right under the smokestack in the aft. She was a real B*@$# about going down. A LOT of deck gun rounds finally did her in. I've got real pretty pictures attached.

For the others, it was an overcast night and I didn't record what I was identifying them as. So there could be some error in both my identification at the time and my memory now. From what I recall they were all small frieghters of some sort. 1-2k tons. But again, I could have this wrong. One picture attached.

On the deck gun... you've got fair point here. I'm not really sure the caliber... it was SS-175 Tarpon (Porpoise?). It looked huge... but I'm a new player so I don't really have any reference. So could have been a 3 inch.

maybe I'll give RFB a second try after my trial patrol with TMOwtw.

ShortPeople

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by shortpeople

Ahoy Treetop!
difficulty was Hard
RFB2.0+patch, Jap convoy fix, RSRDC, Medals fix for RFB.

On sizes of ships, the one that went down was definitely Haruna Maru 1549 Tons. Two hits, one just in front of the superstructure, one right under the smokestack in the aft. She was a real B*@$# about going down. A LOT of deck gun rounds finally did her in. I've got real pretty pictures attached.

For the others, it was an overcast night and I didn't record what I was identifying them as. So there could be some error in both my identification at the time and my memory now. From what I recall they were all small frieghters of some sort. 1-2k tons. But again, I could have this wrong. One picture attached.

On the deck gun... you've got fair point here. I'm not really sure the caliber... it was SS-175 Tarpon (Porpoise?). It looked huge... but I'm a new player so I don't really have any reference. So could have been a 3 inch.

maybe I'll give RFB a second try after my trial patrol with TMOwtw.

ShortPeople

3-inch gun on the Porpoises when you first get them. You'll likely move up to a Gato before the 4-inch gun becomes available on Porpoises.

The Japanese convoy patch is fine but the same convoy data is overwritten and updated by RSRD anyway. I would install the convoy patch after RFB but before RSRD. I may be mistaken but I think that patch is only required if you run RFB by itself or without another mod that enhances convoy data like RSRD.

[Smss]

I like how ships start zig zagging when they are hit. Other mods don't seem to do that. It seemed like they try to ram you if you are close, but it could just be my imagination.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by s7rikeback

Afraid not, that's the Conte Verde unittype fix only.
Good spot though...
Hopefully Marco, can save whats left of my sanity..

my apologies to all for my absence. had some RL stuff that distracted me from Subsim. (yes, that's sarcasm).

Glad to see that someone from the community was able to help Shortpeople with the proper fix.

i'll try and pay more attention.