Shallow water missions

jimmbbo · 07-08-19, 04:59 PM

Sniper... as usual, good gouge!

Adding to my notes for SH4.

I have used decoys successfully if the DDs are closing fast and pinging like mad. In the dive I'll go to flank (perhaps crash diving depending on depth), punch out a decoy or two and run that heading for a minute or so, then while slowing to 2 kt I use the extra energy to turn to a new heading balancing the direction with maintaining a narrow aspect to the DD...

Given the freedom to do so, I try to time the decoy/flank maneuver as I approach the thermal layer, timing the power reduction to coincide with passing through it. Has usually worked, but occasionally need to "Dance With the DDs" to escape a particularly talented acoustician.

With respect to how effective DD acoustic differentiation is, does heading in the convoy's direction diminish their detection?

Cheers!

Sniper297 · 07-08-19, 09:59 PM

Logically being close to any surface ship SHOULD mask your sub, but I'm fairly sure the game doesn't simulate that. I've seen cases where a DD is making a beeline towards me when I'm running quiet at periscope depth with a cruiser between me and the escort, and with either active or passive sonar he should NOT be able to either hear me over the noise from the cruiser or get an echo off me with the cruiser's hull between us. They do anyway, mainly because the AI cheats. The game controls the AI, the game always knows exactly where you are, simplest programming is for the game to feed your location to the enemy AI, so that's what it does. That's my theory, sloppy lazy programming, never been able to prove it with 100% certainty though. Decoys work more often than not, with the 30 minute decoys I've seen several different escorts making multiple attack runs on the decoys.

When all else fails, down the throat shots at 500-700 yards usually work, provided you make sure you're at or near a zero gyro angle so the torpedo doesn't need to make a turn.

jimmbbo · 07-09-19, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

Logically being close to any surface ship SHOULD mask your sub, but I'm fairly sure the game doesn't simulate that. ...
Decoys work more often than not, with the 30 minute decoys I've seen several different escorts making multiple attack runs on the decoys.

When all else fails, down the throat shots at 500-700 yards usually work, provided you make sure you're at or near a zero gyro angle so the torpedo doesn't need to make a turn.

Thanks for the info - will concentrate on quiet and deep using the decoys and minimum aspect to the DD if things get dicey...

Have been surprised when I attempted down the throat shots and took out the DD.. fully expected to see the "JESTER'S DEAD" screen

Sniper297 · 07-10-19, 04:41 PM

Pretty much have to be playing with duds off and be really close to hit a destroyer. Got a lot of destroyers it's like going after hornets with a fly swatter, you miss you're screwed.

jimmbbo · 07-10-19, 10:55 PM

LOL! I actively avoid warships to sink merchants, so if I'm shooting at a DD, something went wrong and it's a bad day in Black Rock... In several hundred missions I have tangled with them only a handful of times, often 'cuz I got lazy keeping watch or was discovered in shallow water.

Sniper297 · 07-11-19, 03:10 PM

Well, again, two items;
1. Successful career depends on renown. Near as I can tell the game actually pays no attention to mission completions, only the total renown earned however you earn it. Unless you're playing a supermod that increases renown for completing mission objectives and decreases renown for tonnage, there's really no point in trying to complete objectives. I have gone through an entire successful career without ever - not even once - completing a mission objective, I deliberately ignored the objective for every patrol, even going the opposite direction. "Patrol Sulu Sea", okay, so stay out of there, run up to Osaka and blast everything in sight instead, here's your victory medal, want a new sub? No reason to go into shallow water if you ignore objectives, pick your own patrol area. Not realistic, but that's how the game is programmed.

2. You really WANT to complete objectives, go to the shallow water star, wait the allotted time, head back for deep water avoiding contact with anything in the shallows. Even if it says "sink enemy merchant shipping in Java sea" only the first part counts, for the mission complete checkmark all you need to do is sink 10 thousand tons of merchies (also unrealistic, in real life they wouldn't specify merchants and would jump for joy if you sank nothing but warships instead) and the program doesn't care WHERE you sank them, once you hit 10 thousand tons here's your mission complete renown - plus the tonnage renown, which is actually more important for success.

Obviously everyone should play however they want, but it IS a game, it IS for entertainment, if it gets frustrating and no fun then play differently.

Red Devil · 07-12-19, 06:05 AM

I just disobey orders and dont go in shallow waters. Yellow sea is another area, nearly the whole sea is shallow.

07-12-19, 06:05 AM	#7
Red Devil The Old Man Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sutton Coldfield England Posts: 1,540 Downloads: 305 Uploads: 0	I just disobey orders and dont go in shallow waters. Yellow sea is another area, nearly the whole sea is shallow. __________________ > > Captain!, there's a destroyer on the por........ periscope is flooded Sir! > Darkness is only the absence of Light; Ignorance is only the absence of knowledge © www.worldwartwo.uk www.captainwalker.uk

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07-08-19, 04:59 PM	#1
jimmbbo Run silent, run deep Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 225 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	Sniper... as usual, good gouge! Adding to my notes for SH4. I have used decoys successfully if the DDs are closing fast and pinging like mad. In the dive I'll go to flank (perhaps crash diving depending on depth), punch out a decoy or two and run that heading for a minute or so, then while slowing to 2 kt I use the extra energy to turn to a new heading balancing the direction with maintaining a narrow aspect to the DD... Given the freedom to do so, I try to time the decoy/flank maneuver as I approach the thermal layer, timing the power reduction to coincide with passing through it. Has usually worked, but occasionally need to "Dance With the DDs" to escape a particularly talented acoustician. With respect to how effective DD acoustic differentiation is, does heading in the convoy's direction diminish their detection? Cheers!

07-08-19, 09:59 PM	#2
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Logically being close to any surface ship SHOULD mask your sub, but I'm fairly sure the game doesn't simulate that. I've seen cases where a DD is making a beeline towards me when I'm running quiet at periscope depth with a cruiser between me and the escort, and with either active or passive sonar he should NOT be able to either hear me over the noise from the cruiser or get an echo off me with the cruiser's hull between us. They do anyway, mainly because the AI cheats. The game controls the AI, the game always knows exactly where you are, simplest programming is for the game to feed your location to the enemy AI, so that's what it does. That's my theory, sloppy lazy programming, never been able to prove it with 100% certainty though. Decoys work more often than not, with the 30 minute decoys I've seen several different escorts making multiple attack runs on the decoys. When all else fails, down the throat shots at 500-700 yards usually work, provided you make sure you're at or near a zero gyro angle so the torpedo doesn't need to make a turn.

07-10-19, 04:41 PM	#4
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Pretty much have to be playing with duds off and be really close to hit a destroyer. Got a lot of destroyers it's like going after hornets with a fly swatter, you miss you're screwed.

07-10-19, 10:55 PM	#5
jimmbbo Run silent, run deep Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 225 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	LOL! I actively avoid warships to sink merchants, so if I'm shooting at a DD, something went wrong and it's a bad day in Black Rock... In several hundred missions I have tangled with them only a handful of times, often 'cuz I got lazy keeping watch or was discovered in shallow water.

07-11-19, 03:10 PM	#6
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Well, again, two items; 1. Successful career depends on renown. Near as I can tell the game actually pays no attention to mission completions, only the total renown earned however you earn it. Unless you're playing a supermod that increases renown for completing mission objectives and decreases renown for tonnage, there's really no point in trying to complete objectives. I have gone through an entire successful career without ever - not even once - completing a mission objective, I deliberately ignored the objective for every patrol, even going the opposite direction. "Patrol Sulu Sea", okay, so stay out of there, run up to Osaka and blast everything in sight instead, here's your victory medal, want a new sub? No reason to go into shallow water if you ignore objectives, pick your own patrol area. Not realistic, but that's how the game is programmed. 2. You really WANT to complete objectives, go to the shallow water star, wait the allotted time, head back for deep water avoiding contact with anything in the shallows. Even if it says "sink enemy merchant shipping in Java sea" only the first part counts, for the mission complete checkmark all you need to do is sink 10 thousand tons of merchies (also unrealistic, in real life they wouldn't specify merchants and would jump for joy if you sank nothing but warships instead) and the program doesn't care WHERE you sank them, once you hit 10 thousand tons here's your mission complete renown - plus the tonnage renown, which is actually more important for success. Obviously everyone should play however they want, but it IS a game, it IS for entertainment, if it gets frustrating and no fun then play differently.