USS Jimmy Carter

[XabbaRus]

Interesting.

Hang on didn't GWB dodge the draft?

Seems Carter wanted peace not war and went about it in a different way. Teh stuff I have read about him seems to me he is a decent man.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Interesting.

Hang on didn't GWB dodge the draft?

No GWB joined the Air National Guard.

[XabbaRus]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

No GWB joined the Air National Guard.

But wasn't that so he could dodge being sent to Nam....same with Dick Cheney didn't he avoid going somehow.

About draft dodging I find American's attitudes to it interesting. On the one hand I can understand it cos many did draft and get killed but on the other hand Vietnam was a horrific war and trying to dodge the draft the sanest thing out. Just like in Russia, many dodge the draft cos they don't want to end up dead in Checnya or beaten to a pulp by their superiors...they aren't villified.

Maybe I have missed something though. What would your opinion be of someone who honestly said "I dodged the draft cos I did't want to go to Nam." ?

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

But wasn't that so he could dodge being sent to Nam....

He could have been sent to Vietnam. Although he was assigned to fly interceptors (F-102 Delta Daggers) and aircraft of that type were sent to Vietnam as a guardsman he was less likely to be sent to war since back then the National Guard was a rearguard type unit, do you think its wise to send less trained guardsmen pilots in to combat guarding B-52s and defending agaist Il-28 raids? My dad joined the US Navy durring the Vietnam War and was assigned to a non-combat role stateside, does that mean he dodged the draft/Vietnam Service? :hmm:

[August]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

But wasn't that so he could dodge being sent to Nam..

If it was, it sure was a poor choice of safe berths. A fighter pilot is an inherently dangerous and demanding job. One would think a much softer berth could be arranged if that was the real intention.

[scandium]

Originally Posted by August

If it was, it sure was a poor choice of safe berths. A fighter pilot is an inherently dangerous and demanding job. One would think a much softer berth could be arranged if that was the real intention.

Seems kind of hard to top being posted to a "champagne unit" stateside when the alternative is combat in Vietnam. From Wiki:

"Champagne unit is a pejorative term used to describe US Military units that had been staffed by celebrities or people from wealthy or politically powerful families. Such units were often part of the National Guard, and assigned to lower-risk duty inside the United States. The connotation is that such units were havens for those with connections who wish to avoid conscription into more dangerous duty while still gaining the prestige afforded in the United States to military service.

During the Vietnam war, service in the National Guard or military reserves was seen as a way to avoid combat. Although some number of Guard units were in fact "called-up" to combat duty in every conflict since World War I, the risk was especially low in the 1970s. Only 8700 Guardsmen were sent to Vietnam, 0.3% of the personnel who served.

Commenting on this disparity, General Colin Powell wrote in his autobiography, "I am angry that so many sons of the powerful and well placed and many professional athletes (who were probably healthier than any of us) managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units. Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to our country."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champagne_unit

[August]

Originally Posted by scandium

Seems kind of hard to top being posted to a "champagne unit" stateside when the alternative is combat in Vietnam.

My point to you is there is nothing easy about being a fighter pilot regardless of where one is stationed. First it's tough to get qualified. What's it, maybe 1 in a hundred, military pilots get to fly fighters? It's also dangerous. Piloting a fighter is an inherently dangerous job.

That's like saying certain sub duty is a champagne job. Sorry just not true.

[Yahoshua]

The champagne units are certainly an unfortunate strain that exists in the U.S. military service.

But at least there are some celebrities who had the balls to go out and fight (like that football player, Pat something....I unfortunately don't remember his name).

[scandium]

Originally Posted by August

My point to you is there is nothing easy about being a fighter pilot regardless of where one is stationed. First it's tough to get qualified. What's it, maybe 1 in a hundred, military pilots get to fly fighters? It's also dangerous. Piloting a fighter is an inherently dangerous job.

That's like saying certain sub duty is a champagne job. Sorry just not true.

Nobody's saying it isn't difficult or that it isn't dangerous. But flying airplanes over Texas isn't the same thing as getting shot at in Vietnam. And a lot of people who didn't want to get sent to Vietnam joined the National Guard (others decided to move to Canada) instead, where only 0.3% of personnel were deployed there. Some of them were also fortunate enough to get posted to the kind of "Champagne Unit" that Bush served in. Bush's own interest in defending Texas' skies also seemed to come about at around the same time he became eligible for the draft, but maybe that was a coincidence.

In any case I'm not judging the guy as that was a harsh choice for anyone to have to make.