No long range missiles for USN

Let's face it...it's all overkill. Just look at all the conflicts in the last 2 decades...even going further back. Air conflicts have been the biggest pushover for Western airforces. And it looks like the trend is going to continue.
The US (and Western powers) are so far in front in terms of fighter technology, any country wanting to take them on is pure suicidal. Even the old F15 has never been shot down (by an enemy fighter), imagine the F22...

Not for nothing we have the SuperHornet...less emphasis on fighter more on attack.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

Let's face it...it's all overkill. Just look at all the conflicts in the last 2 decades...even going further back. Air conflicts have been the biggest pushover for Western airforces. And it looks like the trend is going to continue.
The US (and Western powers) are so far in front in terms of fighter technology, any country wanting to take them on is pure suicidal. Even the old F15 has never been shot down (by an enemy fighter), imagine the F22...

Not for nothing we have the SuperHornet...less emphasis on fighter more on attack.

Serbs downed an F117 Stealth Fighter.
U-2 spyplanes were downed by SA-2 missiles (one over the soviet union, and one over cuba).
During the Vietnam War, american fighter and bomber squadrons were shot down.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Serbs downed an F117 Stealth Fighter.
U-2 spyplanes were downed by SA-2 missiles (one over the soviet union, and one over cuba).
During the Vietnam War, american fighter and bomber squadrons were shot down.

What he ment was aside from Vietnam and 1 F/A-18 in the Gulf War (1991) no USAF/USN/USMC combat aircraft has been downed in Air to Air combat in the last 50 years.

Originally Posted by goldorak

Serbs downed an F117 Stealth Fighter.
U-2 spyplanes were downed by SA-2 missiles (one over the soviet union, and one over cuba).
During the Vietnam War, american fighter and bomber squadrons were shot down.

As TLAM said, if you read properly, you would have noted I was referring to air-to-air combat. Isn't that what this topic is about? The Phoenix etc?

Though goldorak...you keep on harping on about that F117 that got shot down by Serbs. You do realise the F117 isn't invisible to radar, right? Fact remains that out of thousands of sorties, they have still lost only 1 of these planes. That's not bad any way you put it.

Now with the U2 you are talking about SOVIET forces...i.e. the only other superpower which could realistically threaten the US, now defunct. You missed the whole point of my post because I meant AFTER the Cold War, i.e. NOW.

The Vietnam war is the same, considering the Vietnamese were using Soviet technology.

Hope this clears some stuff up...

[LuftWolf]

Though goldorak...you keep on harping on about that F117 that got shot down by Serbs. You do realise the F117 isn't invisible to radar, right? Fact remains that out of thousands of sorties, they have still lost only 1 of these planes. That's not bad any way you put it.

Except that I believe this F117 was shot down with a stopwatch and small arms... it's not INVISIBLE to the eye, that's the biggest problem.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Except that I believe this F117 was shot down with a stopwatch and small arms... it's not INVISIBLE to the eye, that's the biggest problem.

Well stated like that, its the problem of all stealth aircrafts isn't it ?

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Except that I believe this F117 was shot down with a stopwatch and small arms... it's not INVISIBLE to the eye, that's the biggest problem.

No, it was shot down by a radar controlled SAM battery. Or so it seems...though the F/A117 is pretty much invisible at night...it's black. And these things primarily fly night sorties...also think the one in Serbia was shot down in the dark. Which pretty much negates small arms and a stopwatch.

[LuftWolf]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

No, it was shot down by a radar controlled SAM battery. Or so it seems...though the F/A117 is pretty much invisible at night...it's black. And these things primarily fly night sorties...also think the one in Serbia was shot down in the dark. Which pretty much negates small arms and a stopwatch.

Didn't know that.

Actually, the best color for night flying is grey... the B-2 and the F-117 are painted black for propaganda reasons, at least that's the story I heard.

Who knows... seems like they're enough propaganda on their own.

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Didn't know that.

Actually, the best color for night flying is grey... the B-2 and the F-117 are painted black for propaganda reasons, at least that's the story I heard.

Who knows... seems like they're enough propaganda on their own.

Out of curiosity, how did the story about the stopwatch and small arms go? The F/A117 was shot down by a Soviet SAM radar battery (as you'd imagine in that part of the world)...though was bound to happen sooner or later with the amount of AA they throw at those things.

I've seen a 117 fly overhead in the day time...twice (double flyover)....beautiful planes...very strange indeed. Was supposed to have seen the B2 in 2002 but it was being prepared to bomb Iraq.

edit: Actually, the last line should read "was being prepared to POSSIBLY bomb Iraq". Otherwise conspirators will say the Iraq War was a forgone conclusion in 2002...

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

Though goldorak...you keep on harping on about that F117 that got shot down by Serbs. You do realise the F117 isn't invisible to radar, right? Fact remains that out of thousands of sorties, they have still lost only 1 of these planes. That's not bad any way you put it.

I always think it's entertaining how people outside of the US seem to set their expectations of what American technology can do artificially high, and then when it fails to live up to their artificially high expectations, they claim it's no good at all. Bottom line: Serbia ran out of bridges really fast.

And then they try to copy it...

It's like we got all the creative engineers and everyone else is just jealous.

I think the F-117's record is even more impressive considering that it was designed before I was born.

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

I always think it's entertaining how people outside of the US seem to set their expectations of what American technology can do artificially high, and then when it fails to live up to their artificially high expectations, they claim it's no good at all. Bottom line: Serbia ran out of bridges really fast.

And then they try to copy it...

It's like we got all the creative engineers and everyone else is just jealous.

I think the F-117's record is even more impressive considering that it was designed before I was born.

And that's putting it mildly. I've been in a discussion with both Serbs and Kosovon/Albanian fighters who were there. Every Serb blames the US Airforce (or the Kosovon Airforce as they refer to it) as the only factor for pulling back to pre-war borders. The only reason the Kosovons weren't massacred is because of the US Airforce...their words.

[LoBlo]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

The only reason the Kosovons weren't massacred is because of the US Airforce...their words.

Go USA.