A neat little trick?

swimsalot · 06-02-06, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

LW, it's very similar to what we saw in the Kapitan v. Worker replay a month ago. There's little to no indication of lag on this replay, though. I forget if the weapons came closer w/o acquiring in this one, but I seem to remember acquisitions and breaks in the other one. This one nothing grabbed on, ever.

Funny, it's one of those guys that was doing it.
You can see that he had no idea where I was for quite awhile.
My TMA for him was dead on, so I knew there was something wierd going on when nothing would engage.
Not a very good player, but he has a little trick to stay alive

Molon Labe · 06-02-06, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimsalot

Funny, it's one of those guys that was doing it.
You can see that he had no idea where I was for quite awhile.
My TMA for him was dead on, so I knew there was something wierd going on when nothing would engage.
Not a very good player, but he has a little trick to stay alive

When we looked at that replay from before, we were actually looking for evidence of a doctrine-level exploit, which we really didn't find any of. I don't recall ever discussing the possibility that a bug in the game was being exploited. My thoughts were that the acquisition behavior was due to being on the wrong side of the layer, or just acquiring a contact with a stronger return, etc. But, having seen it a second time, and without observing any kind of acquisition at all, it looks like a bug exploit could be the most likely explanation. I wonder if we can reproduce it to verify? That that is the case, there is a decent possibility it can be fixed at the doctrine level, since doctrines control acquistion and dropping of contacts.

EDIT: I just tried to reproduce it by shooting at myself, using a torp and an SLMM for "cover." The torp acquired me every time. I'm stumped.

swimsalot · 06-02-06, 06:39 PM

If this helps, here's how it occurred from my side:
Detected Akula at about 15 nm to my SSE, above layer which was approx 660feet.
I went below layer, maneuvered for a better position, came back up, Akula still there, at about 4knots.
I launched 2 uuv's, 1 below, 1 above, they were too far to hear him.
Since I knew this guy was supposed to be hard to kill, I fired a full salvo of 5(!!!!) torps. I never fire that many,but I had heard stories of this guy evading torps, and I was short on time.
I could hear him above the layer the whole time, I would loose the contact immediately when I went below.
Became concerned it may have been a neutral when the torps were getting very close but he wasn't maneuvering away.
I activated my torps when the nearest were about 1.5nm away.
He fired a single torp, I could track it on TA BB, it was on his LOB, so I knew it was him and not a neutral.
He launched a few missile torps, they landed quite a ways away, no threat. This verified he was above the layer still.

My torps were set for ceiling of 10 feet, bottom of 2100.
Set different depths for them, ranging from 700-200 feet.
4 active, 1 passive at 40kts.
I tracked them in nicely, couldn't figure it out when they got to where he should be and nothing locked on.
Kept em searching, thought my TMA might be off, especially since I could still track his 50hz singal.
TMA updated his contact at 2okts, heading due South. I had a torp exactly on that position, I turned 2 of them around, they also wouldn't aquire anything at that position.

Eventual I shut em down, since I figured he must be doing something wierd, or my TMA was waaaay off.
At this point it was getting late, he had no idea where I was, so I called a draw.
When I watched the replay I was a little bummed to say the least.
I had just tracked and ID'd the target perfectly, sent 5 MK48 ADCAPs at him, and they didn't aquire him.

Hope we can get this fixed, but as I stated, I won't dive with him again.
What's the point?

LuftWolf · 06-03-06, 12:51 AM

@Kurushio, there are more than enough good players in this community and other communities like the one in Combat Mission to have many great games and never have a problem. The issue with online play, like many other things, is anonymity. If you actually know the people you are playing against, the chances of having a good game go up considerably.

@swims, who was hosting this game? What was the game version? Modded or unmodded?

LuftWolf · 06-03-06, 01:05 AM

[deleted]

swimsalot · 06-03-06, 04:56 AM

Actually, I was the host.
No mods, version 1.03
Standard GNSF map.
No databse errors or anything like that at the start.
Like someone else said, I cant understand why people would want to play like that, but I guess its his right.
Im not saying hes cheating, because I dont understand the sim engine that well.
Again, any way to solve this exploit?

LuftWolf · 06-03-06, 05:00 AM

Well, in that case, I'm not entirely sure what is going on here. Someone should just ask him.

My suspicion is that he is taking advantage of an error in the stock torpedo doctrines, the same one that prevents torpedoes from starting to search again if they lose their track, in which case, LWAMI fixed that some time ago.

But if it isn't that, then I'm not really sure at this point, like I said, someone should ask him when they get a chance.

06-03-06, 12:51 AM	#4
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	@Kurushio, there are more than enough good players in this community and other communities like the one in Combat Mission to have many great games and never have a problem. The issue with online play, like many other things, is anonymity. If you actually know the people you are playing against, the chances of having a good game go up considerably. @swims, who was hosting this game? What was the game version? Modded or unmodded? __________________ LW

06-03-06, 01:05 AM	#5
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	[deleted] __________________ LW Last edited by LuftWolf; 06-03-06 at 04:57 AM.

06-03-06, 05:00 AM	#7
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Well, in that case, I'm not entirely sure what is going on here. Someone should just ask him. My suspicion is that he is taking advantage of an error in the stock torpedo doctrines, the same one that prevents torpedoes from starting to search again if they lose their track, in which case, LWAMI fixed that some time ago. But if it isn't that, then I'm not really sure at this point, like I said, someone should ask him when they get a chance. __________________ LW

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06-02-06, 06:39 PM	#3
swimsalot Helmsman Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle, wa usa Posts: 102 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	If this helps, here's how it occurred from my side: Detected Akula at about 15 nm to my SSE, above layer which was approx 660feet. I went below layer, maneuvered for a better position, came back up, Akula still there, at about 4knots. I launched 2 uuv's, 1 below, 1 above, they were too far to hear him. Since I knew this guy was supposed to be hard to kill, I fired a full salvo of 5(!!!!) torps. I never fire that many,but I had heard stories of this guy evading torps, and I was short on time. I could hear him above the layer the whole time, I would loose the contact immediately when I went below. Became concerned it may have been a neutral when the torps were getting very close but he wasn't maneuvering away. I activated my torps when the nearest were about 1.5nm away. He fired a single torp, I could track it on TA BB, it was on his LOB, so I knew it was him and not a neutral. He launched a few missile torps, they landed quite a ways away, no threat. This verified he was above the layer still. My torps were set for ceiling of 10 feet, bottom of 2100. Set different depths for them, ranging from 700-200 feet. 4 active, 1 passive at 40kts. I tracked them in nicely, couldn't figure it out when they got to where he should be and nothing locked on. Kept em searching, thought my TMA might be off, especially since I could still track his 50hz singal. TMA updated his contact at 2okts, heading due South. I had a torp exactly on that position, I turned 2 of them around, they also wouldn't aquire anything at that position. Eventual I shut em down, since I figured he must be doing something wierd, or my TMA was waaaay off. At this point it was getting late, he had no idea where I was, so I called a draw. When I watched the replay I was a little bummed to say the least. I had just tracked and ID'd the target perfectly, sent 5 MK48 ADCAPs at him, and they didn't aquire him. Hope we can get this fixed, but as I stated, I won't dive with him again. What's the point?

06-03-06, 04:56 AM	#6
swimsalot Helmsman Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle, wa usa Posts: 102 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Actually, I was the host. No mods, version 1.03 Standard GNSF map. No databse errors or anything like that at the start. Like someone else said, I cant understand why people would want to play like that, but I guess its his right. Im not saying hes cheating, because I dont understand the sim engine that well. Again, any way to solve this exploit?