More gameplay from youtube

[Hjalfnar]

Originally Posted by AKD

From what I saw in the videos, it is so implausible as to be downright silly. Not sure what it adds at all. Would much rather see boarding a disabled ship, seizing intel, scuttling the ship with explosive charges (something else to acquire and manage in port) then having to make a decision on what to do with the crew (allow to leave in boats, capture, or kill) with different consequences.

Or if the devs insist on the need to make a decision that costs the life of a crew member: you send boarding party to seize intel and bring back to the sub, while intel is being brought back to the sub in the launch, one of your officers remains aboard the disabled freighter to emplace demolition charges. During this time the enemy is detected approaching and you must make a decision to torpedo the freighter with your officer still on board to hide of evidence of the intel seizure. Would also be a handy introduction to torpedoing a very easy target (unarmed and not moving).

Well, German submarines DID carry such suits. So it is not entirely unrealistic, though actually using them was pretty rare. They were actually intended for hull repairs at sea, but sometimes used for other stuff. I know of at least one case where a sub lost a torpedo and as they were in very shallow waters, the diver went down, attached a chain and they got it back up.

[AKD]

Originally Posted by Hjalfnar

Well, German submarines DID carry such suits. So it is not entirely unrealistic, though actually using them was pretty rare. They were actually intended for hull repairs at sea, but sometimes used for other stuff. I know of at least one case where a sub lost a torpedo and as they were in very shallow waters, the diver went down, attached a chain and they got it back up.

It's not the diving suit itself (and it would be perfectly reasonable for a u-boat crew to use such to effect repairs in certain conditions), but the scenario of its use that is absurd.

A 1939 scenario where your u-boat attempts to abide by prize regulations to secure an important piece of intel is far more plausible, and actually tells a story that fits in the history of the war, while allowing scope for some dramatic exaggeration that doesn't cross the line into absurdity.

Obviously it doesn't make or break the game, but it certainly sets an odd tone.

[Hjalfnar]

Originally Posted by AKD

Obviously it doesn't make or break the game, but it certainly sets an odd tone.

Hm, I don't know...I like it. The mission begins BEFORE the beginning of hostilities between the United Kingdom and Germany. Also, the ship has run aground according to the tutorial description, so it does not lie in deep in the water. If the German Abwehr knows there was something valuable aboard, I think it is absolutely fine to send out a small submarine that most likely nobody would be able to properly identify in the dark of night and try to salvage SOMETHING.

[AKD]

Originally Posted by Hjalfnar

Hm, I don't know...I like it. The mission begins BEFORE the beginning of hostilities between the United Kingdom and Germany. Also, the ship has run aground according to the tutorial description, so it does not lie in deep in the water. If the German Abwehr knows there was something valuable aboard, I think it is absolutely fine to send out a small submarine that most likely nobody would be able to properly identify in the dark of night and try to salvage SOMETHING.

The mission begins on Sept 3 and continues into the night, therefore after the start of hostilities. The ship is described as having been sunk due to "sabotage" (huh?) and you clearly find the location in the middle of the North Sea...at night...in a storm...

Devs need to decide if tone of game is Kelly's Heroes or Das Boot. I'm getting a distinct sense of split personality from recent vids.

Anyways, real history can be just as dramatic, e.g.:

At 21.08 hours on 30 Sep 1939 the neutral Gun (Master J.M. Persson) was stopped by U-3 about 30 miles northwest of Hanstholm. The master came aboard with the papers of the ship, which showed that she was carrying contraband. While the Germans interviewed the master, the vessel suddenly began moving and turned towards the U-boat. Warned by a similar behavior of Vendia earlier that day, U-3 evaded quickly and sent a boarding party of four men, led by WO Lt. Fraatz, aboard at 22.00 hours. Shortly thereafter the U-boat had to dive when a vessel was sighted heading for the stopped ship, this proved to be HMS Thistle (N 24) (LtCdr R.W. Stirling-Hamilton, RN) which was attacked with one G7a torpedo at 22.56 hours. The torpedo missed and the submarine dived shortly afterwards, although they were not aware of the attack. The submerged HMS Thistle passed under the stern of the steamer, not knowing that Germans were aboard and prepared the ship for scuttling. The submarine surfaced after one hour and left the area, encountering the lifeboat with the Swedish crew. They told them to return to their ship as she was still afloat, but in the meantime the seacocks had been opened and scuttling charges were placed. The boarding party left the Gun in one of her lifeboats and were picked up by the Danish steam merchant Dagmar along with the Swedish survivors. At 05.30 hours, U-3 stopped this steamer to take off the boarding party and then went to the drifting Gun to sink her by a torpedo at 09.10 hours.

[italianmarine]

Originally Posted by AKD

The mission begins on Sept 3 and continues into the night, therefore after the start of hostilities. The ship is described as having been sunk due to "sabotage" (huh?) and you clearly find the location in the middle of the North Sea...at night...in a storm...

Devs need to decide if tone of game is Kelly's Heroes or Das Boot. I'm getting a distinct sense of split personality from recent vids.

Anyways, real history can be just as dramatic, e.g.:

so do you prefer only two types of missions? espionage/infiltration and seek and destroy like in Silent Hunter since it is more historically correct?

I love all of the SH versions but I like that the missions here can vary, as shown in the streams, even though it might not be historically correct. UBOAT is not advertised as Sim, so if the devs like their vision, they should follow it. You know Hardcoresim players like us can`t pretend to much otherwise the game will not appeal to more casual players.


If it will be easy to mod I am more than confident that some modders will make it more historically correct, harder and more simbased.

[AKD]

Originally Posted by italianmarine

so do you prefer only two types of missions? espionage/infiltration and seek and destroy like in Silent Hunter since it is more historically correct?

I love all of the SH versions but I like that the missions here can vary, as shown in the streams, even though it might not be historically correct. UBOAT is not advertised as Sim, so if the devs like their vision, they should follow it. You know Hardcoresim players like us can`t pretend to much otherwise the game will not appeal to more casual players.


If it will be easy to mod I am more than confident that some modders will make it more historically correct, harder and more simbased.

As I pointed out, all the same goals and challenges of the tutorial could be accomplished with an entirely plausible scenario, one that would actually give you more opportunity to learn useful aspects of the game, and open up more varied gameplay, especially in the first months of the war.

Dealing with the difficult and sometimes inconsistent orders from BdU regarding observation of prize rules and risking your crew to board ships is a real challenge consistent with the tone of Das Boot or This War of Mine (I believe the devs have directly compared their game to both).

Diving for treasure or blowing the cook's brains out for burning eggs (with no apparent consequences!) is not. This is not a simulation criticism, but a story-telling criticism.