A neat little trick?

[swimsalot]

Couldn't figure out how I missed a player until I watched the replay.
Not exactly "realistic", but I guess it works for him.
Anyone know why this fools the torps?
Attached is the replay file.
If ya play against this guy, this is how he wins.<br><br>Edit- guess I cant attach files.<br>I'll post in CADC. Here's the link.<br><br><a href="mailto:http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/showthread.php?p=34893#post34893">http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/showthread.php?p=34893#post34893</a><br>

[LuftWolf]

Can you describe it here?

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Can you describe it here?

LW, it's very similar to what we saw in the Kapitan v. Worker replay a month ago. There's little to no indication of lag on this replay, though. I forget if the weapons came closer w/o acquiring in this one, but I seem to remember acquisitions and breaks in the other one. This one nothing grabbed on, ever.

That's one reason why I don't bother with online play. It has less to do with real-life tactics/skill and more to do with exploits/bugs and lag times. I used to play Aces High, the online warbird sim, and that was exactly the same...always someone using an exploit or they'd have a faster connection and they'd get to shoot first in a head-on. Fact remains the nature of humans is that if they can cheat, they will. Like communism wont work, online play will never work, for the same reason. Humans suck...

Online play sounds really good...until you try it.

[LuftWolf]

No, online play is great, if you play with the right people.

I suggest the GNSF, they are very good players, and cheating is taken very seriously, although it rarely happens because the members are generally nice people.

Also, LWAMI is the prefered method of play, which is great in my opinion (of course).

The Xbox-Live way of going definately sucks.

Cheers,
David

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

The Xbox-Live way of going definately sucks.

We agree on something. If they stop making computer games, then I stop playing video games...It's that simple. I hate consoles.

[swimsalot]

What the other person does is wait until the enemy torps are getting close, then he fires a single torp set at a lower speed, turns it around, and has it follow right behind him. The enemy torps won't lock onto his sub, apparently distracted by his torp.
Not a cheat I guess, but I won't be playing with this guy again, beacuse as others have noted, it is not the style of play I enjoy.
Is there a way to "fix" this in LWAMI or something?

[swimsalot]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

LW, it's very similar to what we saw in the Kapitan v. Worker replay a month ago. There's little to no indication of lag on this replay, though. I forget if the weapons came closer w/o acquiring in this one, but I seem to remember acquisitions and breaks in the other one. This one nothing grabbed on, ever.

Funny, it's one of those guys that was doing it.
You can see that he had no idea where I was for quite awhile.
My TMA for him was dead on, so I knew there was something wierd going on when nothing would engage.
Not a very good player, but he has a little trick to stay alive

Originally Posted by swimsalot

What the other person does is wait until the enemy torps are getting close, then he fires a single torp set at a lower speed, turns it around, and has it follow right behind him. The enemy torps won't lock onto his sub, apparently distracted by his torp.
Not a cheat I guess, but I won't be playing with this guy again, beacuse as others have noted, it is not the style of play I enjoy.
Is there a way to "fix" this in LWAMI or something?

No, not a cheat but an exploit. Same meaning, different words. That's what I mean... Why are people that dumb? You buy an ultra-realistic naval sim, and then you do something which is totally beyond the realm of reality...just so..what? So you can all be smug with yourself? What's the point of that?

And I bet he's a 40 year old, pathetic moron to boot. I mean...the average player's age of this game must be pretty high.

I gave up with online play...long time ago.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by swimsalot

Funny, it's one of those guys that was doing it.
You can see that he had no idea where I was for quite awhile.
My TMA for him was dead on, so I knew there was something wierd going on when nothing would engage.
Not a very good player, but he has a little trick to stay alive

When we looked at that replay from before, we were actually looking for evidence of a doctrine-level exploit, which we really didn't find any of. I don't recall ever discussing the possibility that a bug in the game was being exploited. My thoughts were that the acquisition behavior was due to being on the wrong side of the layer, or just acquiring a contact with a stronger return, etc. But, having seen it a second time, and without observing any kind of acquisition at all, it looks like a bug exploit could be the most likely explanation. I wonder if we can reproduce it to verify? That that is the case, there is a decent possibility it can be fixed at the doctrine level, since doctrines control acquistion and dropping of contacts.


EDIT: I just tried to reproduce it by shooting at myself, using a torp and an SLMM for "cover." The torp acquired me every time. I'm stumped.

[swimsalot]

If this helps, here's how it occurred from my side:
Detected Akula at about 15 nm to my SSE, above layer which was approx 660feet.
I went below layer, maneuvered for a better position, came back up, Akula still there, at about 4knots.
I launched 2 uuv's, 1 below, 1 above, they were too far to hear him.
Since I knew this guy was supposed to be hard to kill, I fired a full salvo of 5(!!!!) torps. I never fire that many,but I had heard stories of this guy evading torps, and I was short on time.
I could hear him above the layer the whole time, I would loose the contact immediately when I went below.
Became concerned it may have been a neutral when the torps were getting very close but he wasn't maneuvering away.
I activated my torps when the nearest were about 1.5nm away.
He fired a single torp, I could track it on TA BB, it was on his LOB, so I knew it was him and not a neutral.
He launched a few missile torps, they landed quite a ways away, no threat. This verified he was above the layer still.

My torps were set for ceiling of 10 feet, bottom of 2100.
Set different depths for them, ranging from 700-200 feet.
4 active, 1 passive at 40kts.
I tracked them in nicely, couldn't figure it out when they got to where he should be and nothing locked on.
Kept em searching, thought my TMA might be off, especially since I could still track his 50hz singal.
TMA updated his contact at 2okts, heading due South. I had a torp exactly on that position, I turned 2 of them around, they also wouldn't aquire anything at that position.

Eventual I shut em down, since I figured he must be doing something wierd, or my TMA was waaaay off.
At this point it was getting late, he had no idea where I was, so I called a draw.
When I watched the replay I was a little bummed to say the least.
I had just tracked and ID'd the target perfectly, sent 5 MK48 ADCAPs at him, and they didn't aquire him.

Hope we can get this fixed, but as I stated, I won't dive with him again.
What's the point?

[LuftWolf]

@Kurushio, there are more than enough good players in this community and other communities like the one in Combat Mission to have many great games and never have a problem. The issue with online play, like many other things, is anonymity. If you actually know the people you are playing against, the chances of having a good game go up considerably.

@swims, who was hosting this game? What was the game version? Modded or unmodded?

[LuftWolf]

[deleted]

[swimsalot]

Actually, I was the host.
No mods, version 1.03
Standard GNSF map.
No databse errors or anything like that at the start.
Like someone else said, I cant understand why people would want to play like that, but I guess its his right.
Im not saying hes cheating, because I dont understand the sim engine that well.
Again, any way to solve this exploit?

[LuftWolf]

Well, in that case, I'm not entirely sure what is going on here. Someone should just ask him.

My suspicion is that he is taking advantage of an error in the stock torpedo doctrines, the same one that prevents torpedoes from starting to search again if they lose their track, in which case, LWAMI fixed that some time ago.

But if it isn't that, then I'm not really sure at this point, like I said, someone should ask him when they get a chance.