India bombs terror camps across LoC in Pakistan

[Catfish]

^ right, had changed it to ".. says it shot down.." before i saw your msg

[ikalugin]

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...81002417041408
Well the NOTAM story is quite interesting.

[Georg Lassen]

I think it is confirmed, not confirmed are the claims of heavy fighting along the border.

[Georg Lassen]

Pakistan hosted Al-Qaida in Afganistan and eventually even Osama inside Pakistan, all this with much collusion from Saudi-Arabia.
These two are just as hostile towards the West as the usual gang run by Russia and China.


When USA has the courage to finally cut ties with them everything will be much more clear.
Pakistan is historically close to China even today and Saudis are more and more aligning themselves with Russia and China.


US negotiating with Taleban about the future of Afganistan is totally meaningless, the confrence for that was held in Moscow and participants where Russia, China, Pakistan and the Taleban.

[Skybird]

Pakistan is one puzzle piece in Chinas surroundign strategy of India. If you look on a map, India is now encircled by China-allies and states China has massively bought itself into to gain influence.


To allow Pakistan developing the nuclear bomb was one of the modenr history's biggest mistakes.


Maybe India and Pakistan indeed are on their way to launch round four of their bout.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Skybird, the issue is not that India has conducted strikes against Pakistan, the issue is that there is an incident between two nuclear powers, which is a bad thing.

Because if this thing goes nuclear then due to the scale of the local population you would get even more refugees in Europe than before, if nothing else.

P.s. on the other hand it would be most interesting to see a large scale conventional conflict between the two which would then escalate to a nuclear one for a military enthusiast such as myself.

There have already been three wars between the two, two of these wars were about Kashmir.
The point here is that Pakistan time and again carries out terror strikes against India, even inside India, by using its terror legions that it hosts so welcomingly. Some of these terror strikes of the past years were really extremely furious and costed scores of lifes. The point is that Pakistn does these acts of mass murder and atricitiy by calculating its nuclear wepaons give it immunity.


The point is that thy must learn to be afraid of the Indians retaliating, no matter the nukes. As long as India does not threaten to indeed push Pakistan beyond an essential re dline beyond which its very existence is threatened, i am not overly concerned about a nuclear war there.


And refugees from there to here I neither see coming in scores, nor are the Europeans forced to give up control of their borders like they find so clever still today. EU states were so stupid just recently to delay all announced actions for boosting FRONTEX beyond 2027, I predict that will move most of that will never materilaise. If the Europeans are this stupid, then let them pay the price for their stupdity in case any masses from Pakistan and India indeed reaches Europe. Selbst schuld.

[ikalugin]

Skybird, as a rule those wars were before both parties went nuclear.


There are more people in India and Pakistan than there are in Africa and some of the other regions people migrate from to the EU. If there is a nuclear exchange there would be a massive supply of actual refugees (not migrants as there is a valid threat to their life) and massive demand (for moral reasons).



"In the aerial engagement, a Pakistan fighter aircraft was shot down by a MiG-21 Bison. The aircraft was seen by ground forces falling on the Pakistan side: MEA"
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...g/68177682.cms
Would be amusing if MiG 21-93 shot down a block 50 Viper.

[Georg Lassen]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And refugees from there to here I neither see coming in scores, nor are the Europeans forced to give up control of their borders like they find so clever still today. EU states were so stupid just recently to delay all announced actions for boosting FRONTEX beyond 2027, I predict that will move most of that will never materilaise. If the Europeans are this stupid, then let them pay the price for their stupdity in case any masses from Pakistan and India indeed reaches Europe. Selbst schuld.

FRONTEX is one of the main federalist projects after the euro currency, borders are secure when they are enforced, not by facilititating entry.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Skybird, as a rule those wars were before both parties went nuclear.

I know. What I mean is that in the two wars over Kashmir they did not go as far as to trying to - conventionally - overrun each other'S whole counties or destroying/disrupting them.



Only if relgious nutties take over in Islamaba there is reason to worry. Fact is the givernment and the military are sharing control, and it is not clear who of the two is the stronger one.But both of them are calculating for their own power and interest - and that rules out potentially suicidal nuclear experiments. I fear the Pakistani proliferation of nuke tech much more.

There are more people in India and Pakistan than there are in Africa and some of the other regions people migrate from to the EU. If there is a nuclear exchange there would be a massive supply of actual refugees (not migrants as there is a valid threat to their life) and massive demand (for moral reasons).

As I said, the Europeans are not forced to let them in. If they would be so stupid to nevertheless do it - then that is the Europeans' own stupidity. So let them suffer from it.


Wer nicht hören will, muß fühlen.

[Georg Lassen]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Only if relgious nutties take over in Islamaba there is reason to worry. Fact is the givernment and the military are sharing control, and it is not clear who of the two is the stronger one.But both of them are calculating for their own power and interest - and that rules out potentially suicidal nuclear experiments. I fear the Pakistani proliferation of nuke tech much more.

That guy running Saudi-Arabia is a good candidate to go nuclear from the Pakistan program they have helped fund.

[Georg Lassen]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

There are more people in India and Pakistan than there are in Africa and some of the other regions people migrate from to the EU. If there is a nuclear exchange there would be a massive supply of actual refugees (not migrants as there is a valid threat to their life) and massive demand (for moral reasons).

Europe cant take any more migrating peoples in without serious internal conclicts erupting, that is the reason Turkey and others have weaponized it.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Georg Lassen

Europe cant take any more migrating peoples in without serious internal conclicts erupting, that is the reason Turkey and others have weaponized it.

I doubt that the advocates of refugees would care about this argument.


Especially if nuclear weapons were used and there is this whole moral aspect.

[Georg Lassen]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

I doubt that the advocates of refugees would care about this argument.


Especially if nuclear weapons were used and there is this whole moral aspect.

Well West will have to man up or die holding the moral high ground.

[Skybird]

BTW, my historic memory failed me. There already were FOUR wars over Kashmir: 47, 65, 71 and 99. And if one counts the time or notorious unrest and clashes in Kashmir during the 80s, even FIVE.


Even more if counting more smaller clashes. Hot grounds.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Georg Lassen

Well West will have to man up or die holding the moral high ground.

Yep, the West is crucifying itself over always absolute morale claims that all too often lack sense of realism, and a realsitic oercepotion of one's own de facto abilities. Also, there are those foreign actors/nations that use migration and demography as a weapon of non-military means to damage the West.


But i say again, the West must not do this, is free to decide against this. If Wetserners don't do that, its their own fault. They will fall - and their superior absolute morality with them. Karma.