jamal Khashoggi murdered by Saudi agents

[vienna]

Basically, the US has had a long held standard of behavior when it comes to human rights and, basically, it boils down to : If you talk the talk, you have to walk the walk. A little thing called national honor and image...


Of course, maybe all that has has changed now that we have that paragon of virtue, integrity, ethics, and honesty now in the Oval Office...












<O>




..

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

Of course, maybe all that has has changed now that we have that paragon of virtue, integrity, ethics, and honesty now in the Oval Office...

Oh please. You must be joking. Are you suggesting that all previous administrations were a "paragon of virtue, integrity, ethics, and honesty". I sure hope not.

[Catfish]

You have to admit that general handling and conduct has reached an all-time low. Though i am not informed about Genghis Khan's speeches.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

You have to admit that general handling and conduct has reached an all-time low. Though i am not informed about Genghis Khan's speeches.

I am not defending the present administration. But I wouldn't dream of defending the previous one. I'd have to consult a lawyer first.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by u crank

I am not defending the present administration. But I wouldn't dream of defending the previous one. I'd have to consult a lawyer first.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by u crank

Oh please. You must be joking. Are you suggesting that all previous administrations were a "paragon of virtue, integrity, ethics, and honesty". I sure hope not.

The past is the past as far as previous administrations go and we are now left with the present, which is under our watch. Just like in almost all comparative matters of performance, its "what are you doing now" and the guy in the Big Chair ain't no shining paragon. Pointing back at previous administrations to defend the failings of the current disaster of governance does little more than amplify how very deficient in any leadership qualities Trump and his minions are. Trump campaigned on MAGA, but all he's really done is make the US a diminished power and an international joke punchline. So, stop pointing backwards, start dealing with the now, and, if you got to point, point at how the current mess can be remedied...

Perhaps when President Pence takes office soon; after all, it seems Pence's current Chief Of Staff is being considered as a replacement fo Kelly as Trump's CoS; how convenient it will be for Pence when he has to take over after President Chump flames out...

Originally Posted by Catfish

You have to admit that general handling and conduct has reached an all-time low. Though i am not informed about Genghis Khan's speeches.

Neither am I, but I'd be willing to bet his would be a hell of a lot more cogent and better than than aimless ramblings of Trump...

...or is Trump-Speak the 'new Mongolian'?...









<O>

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

Pointing back at previous administrations to defend the failings of the current disaster of governance does little more than amplify how very deficient in any leadership qualities Trump and his minions are.

I'm not defending the present or any of the past administrations. I'm just telling it like it is. It's your point. You defend it.

So, stop pointing backwards, start dealing with the now, and, if you got to point, point at how the current mess can be remedied...

Same way as the last one. An election.

Perhaps when President Pence takes office soon

Dream on if you wish.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by u crank

I'm not defending the present or any of the past administrations. I'm just telling it like it is. It's your point. You defend it.

Yes, and I told it like it is as well, wit the emphasis on is, not was. Simply trying to dodge a matter by always bringing up Obama, Hillary, Pelosi, etc., or past occurrences not really affecting the current situation, points out there is no real defense for the appallingly inept and shoddy excuse for governance the US is currently suffering from...

If you rcounter to my point is to weakly beat dead horses, then you should do as you say; "It's your point. You defend it"...


As far as 'President Pence' is concerned, I have been merely pointing out how passing strange it is how Pence has been placed more in the front on matters he previously had no comment, how he has assumed some of the public responsibilities from Trump, and how he has even appeared to veer away from Trump on some issues; putting Pence's CoS as Trump's CoS, in place of Kelly, seems a rather 'natural' way of easing what may be an approaching change of command; Pence could hit the ground running without the need to make staff decisions regarding his possible Presidency; overall, the actions surrounding Pence, of late, have seemed a bit too neat and convenient...

Of, course, if you are really concerned about Pence, you could probably stop him cold by putting an unmarried woman in the Oval Office; he appears to be scared to death of them...












<O>

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

Yes, and I told it like it is as well, wit the emphasis on is, not was.

So we agree.

My emphasis, though not intended, is to simply point out that nothing has changed from administration to administration. Nothing.

..there is no real defense for the appallingly inept and shoddy excuse for governance the US is currently suffering from...

That's an opinion you are entitled to. Not everyone shares that opinion. Some people are quite happy. Nice to live in a pluralistic society eh.

As far as 'President Pence' is concerned,..

Gotta admit it rolls right off the tongue. But unless Trump resigns à la Nixon or for some other reason (boredom) Pence remains the #2 guy. Oh yea he may be impeached but found guilty by the Senate...no. Well highly unlikely unless of course he does stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoots someone. Of course there will have to be 'credible' witnesses.

Of, course, if you are really concerned about Pence, you could probably stop him cold by putting an unmarried woman in the Oval Office; he appears to be scared to death of them...

If only Bubba would have had that problem.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by vienna

Basically, the US has had a long held standard of behavior when it comes to human rights and, basically, it boils down to : If you talk the talk, you have to walk the walk. A little thing called national honor and image...
<O>

Isn't Chicago part of the human rights problem?

http://www.chicagonow.com/getting-re...-2018-murders/

Chicago's Safest And Most Dangerous Neighborhoods 2018

For the 12 months ending in June 2018 595 people were killed, compared to 784 last year's 2017 at this time.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jamal-k...on-2018-11-17/

CIA concludes Saudi crown prince ordered Jamal Khashoggi’s assassination

The CIA has intelligence that substantiates an assessment that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, according to a U.S. official familiar with the intelligence.

The CIA's assessment regarding the death of Khashoggi, who wrote for The Washington Post, was first reported by news outlets Friday, including The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and The Associated Press. According to sources cited in the publications, the CIA's assessment appeared to be largely based on the control held by bin Salman. In other words, the murder could not have been carried out without the knowledge of bin Salman, often referred to by his initials, MBS.

MBS has denied any involvement in Khashoggi's killing.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

CIA concludes Saudi crown prince ordered Jamal Khashoggi’s assassination

Must be fake news

"President Trump has resisted blaming MBS for Khashoggi's death. He has cited the importance of the Saudis in countering the influence of Iran in the region, as well as future military sales by U.S. defense contractors.
On Saturday, President Trump called Saudi Arabia a "spectacular ally", citing the kingdom's contribution to American jobs and the economy."

Oil.

Anyone remembers Kashoggi's son had to shake hands with Bin Salman for "condolences"? I can't eat enough how much all this makes me throw up.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Must be fake news

"President Trump has resisted blaming MBS for Khashoggi's death. He has cited the importance of the Saudis in countering the influence of Iran in the region, as well as future military sales by U.S. defense contractors.
On Saturday, President Trump called Saudi Arabia a "spectacular ally", citing the kingdom's contribution to American jobs and the economy."

Oil.

Anyone remembers Kashoggi's son had to shake hands with Bin Salman for "condolences"? I can't eat enough how much all this makes me throw up.

Khashoggi was very close and had many friends in high places in the U.S. Government including the CIA. He was a good source of information with a tremendous amount of connections throughout the middle east. His murder ticked off a lot of those friends especially those in the CIA.

Now I dont consider Saudi an ally, but we (not just Trump) have much of the same concerns in that region as the Saudis do. And regardless of the political rhetoric and fan boy finger pointing you might hear in the news. I think we will maintain a relationship with them not because we like them but out of necessity.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I think we will maintain a relationship with them not because we like them but out of necessity.

This is as true as it gets