Dismay and fury in the armed forces

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by CCIP

I think defeating Islam is too lofty a goal. The idea of defeating a religion/social structure is a bit too extreme in the modern world. Even with the Cold War, the key word was not defeating communism but containing it. Nor was it defeated, but, as in the case of China, it's not exactly an immediate danger.

I think it's all too obvious to say that America can't defeat it or even legitimize attempts to do so under its moral ideology. On the other hand, containing it is a more realistic goal, and something that could be done - not with troops, perhaps, but with realistic policies nonetheless. You've learned to live with a billion communists by adapting a pragmatic approach to them and pressuring them where needed; perhaps likewise, if it's recognized as a similarly-conflicting ideology, you can live with a billion Muslims too.

Because of that kind of reasonable thinking about the current situation, we currently get overrun. Islam is not communism. Islam is not the Cold War.You cannot tame Islam. As long as it is there, it will keep coming again and again and again, until it all is it's own. We are braking. We give ground. We have run out of time. We are loosing. We are the prey. And you continue to philosophize, like so many others. Alea jacta est. It's hopeless, then.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Because of that kind of reasonable thinking about the current situation, we currently get overrun. Islam is not communism. Islam is not the Cold War.You cannot tame Islam. As long as it is there, it will keep coming again and again and again, until it all is it's own. We are braking. We give ground. We have run out of time. We are loosing. We are the prey. And you continue to philosophize, like so many others. Alea jacta est. It's hopeless, then.

It's quite unlike you to suggest that "unreasonable thinking" would lead to a better solution here.

There's perfectly reasonable solutions to this even if you reject any parallels with the Cold War. You can't tame it, alright, but what's the solution here? Again, "Bomb Muslims" should be neither justifyable nor practical. And even strong, assertive action should be reasonable. Otherwise, we become nothing but the bloodthirsty fanatics we so oppose.

You know my stance on this, but losing ground or not, we aren't living in a world where we can suddenly raise a banner of "Clash of Civilizations: Mortal Combat" and feel perfectly right about it. There's perfectly political, economic, and other conservative means to scale down the actual growing power of this threat; the biggest first step would be recognizing it as such and then acting out of reason.

I'm not going to go out to war against extreme Muslims, thank you, I had to leave one country already to avoid doing just that.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by CCIP

There's perfectly political, economic, and other conservative means to scale down the actual growing power of this threat; the biggest first step would be recognizing it as such and then acting out of reason.

All right then. In fourty years the majority of French population will be Muslim, the simple charming mathematics of birth rates. some time later, the European countries will follow. In a hundred years, at the latest, Europe will be Muslim by majority. Some time later it will be completely Muslim - Islam does not tolerate coexistence with seconds. european culture will vanish, the social system will collaps, the values our ancestors have bitterly suffered and fought for to overcome in a cutting of the power of the churches, braking the power of the feudal system, enforcing a time of enlightenment, overcoming kings and empires - all this will have been in vain. When this will happen, guys like you already will have gone much earlier, for you will have not have had the freedom to think like you do since much earlier. All you do is winnig time - for them.It is a bit less-academical, but you saw the text I linked to short ago?http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...p?t=93702There is a reason why the last world war against tyranny and totalitarianism was fought. That reason today is forgotten, or perverted for some local stupid adventures like Iraq or Afghanistan.The sad thing is that some people think they still know more about islam even if islam's representatives tells them directly and without any hiding: "We will turn your laws against you, and we will rule you because of your own laws. your land and your life is Allah'S land and Allah'S life, that is why we rightfully demand to possess you. There cannot be muslim life without complete sub,misson to quran and sharia." Okay, let's be smart. Be reasonable and calm. Let's try to outthink them. Our leaders think in a ruling term's length, their decimal system ends with "three", than it is campaign year. Islams thinks in centuries. and while we think our calm and educated and reasonable thoughts, Muslim communities slowly but surely breed us to death. We philosophize - they act. That's a decent way to fall. Calm, and reaonable. The melancholy in it is sweet and bitter like dandelion wine. And it has style. No aggression, please. No uproar, and please stoip yelling, that noise helps noone. Remember, the string quartett is said to have played during the sinking of the Titanic until the end.BTW, where did I say: bomb the Muslims...? I figure you give that phrase only to make it easier for you to blame me.

[CCIP]

Sigh, we had to get to that stage. I'm certainly not blaming you, just that from this specific posting it's difficult to tell just what it is you're suggesting or how reasonable it is.

I wouldn't start blaming you since, in principle, I more or less agree with you on the problem. What I don't see is the proposed solution. Maybe I'm thinking too far ahead of myself.