strike from the sea

[XenonSurf]

I succeeded by taking out the warships first, else the torpedo counter-attack is deadly, they are just too close and in a war you can't wait or lose any time.

The MOSS and active tactics will work the first time but not for the 2 other times that you musst shoot 4 /2 missiles (you can only launch 4 missiles in 1 go). I had to radically change my position after my first attack. You must get away from searching planes, sonobuoys etc. before attacking a second and third time. Had I not eliminated the ships first I couldn't have changed my position radically with active pinging warships...

To succeed mission you must fire and hit with 10 TLAMs (4-4-2). and yes, there's no debrifing for single missions, I hope they add this soonest.

CW is really Red Storm Rising on high steroids keeping all interesting aspects of this Classic. This game is on a good way to become the best sub sim ever.

[GoldenRivet]

Just leaving the area has worked for me... silent running 2-5 knots, deep as possible, head north until you are near the edge of the map and fire the TLAMs 4 at a time until all 8 are fired.

you will get some aircraft attention but its 50-50 whether or not they find you.

every time i have tried it since my initial attempt i have been successful

[XenonSurf]

@GeneralGamer,
@GoldenRivet,

In CW your tactics will work because the max. range of TLAMs are highly exagerated, and your missiles will hardly get shotdown.
It should be so that the longer the range you're shooting your missiles from, the more of them will get shotdown from ship or terran defences, no mention of that in the briefing. So you should STAY in the sector and not get further away.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by XenonSurf

In CW your tactics will work because the max. range of TLAMs are highly exagerated

source?

according to the United States Navy the range of TLAM is between 700 and 1350 nautical miles depending on the variant.

the earliest TLAMs had a range of about 700 nautical miles.

the in-mission map in Cold Waters is roughly 300 x 300 nautical miles. therefor the range of the TLAM is at least twice the size of the entire map

so i fail to see how the range of the TLAMs in game is "highly exaggerated"

IRL TLAMs can be programmed with up to 15 alternate targets to select from remotely should the primary target prove to be non-viable. additionally the TLAM can be programmed with way-points to follow in order to allow it to avoid areas of air defense and surface vessels... so in theory, cold waters should allow the player to route his TLAMs around to come from the back side of the port if he so desired. without this option, i would say leaving the surface ships unable to shoot down TLAMs is a reasonable alternative.

finally, the mission orders are to "remain undetected", if you can tell me how to sink every warship on the map without the enemy figuring out they are being shot at by a sub... i'm all ears

[XenonSurf]

Then what are you doing at 50ky at the port ? Doesn't make sense if you are not supposed to fire from that range. In the game the max range for TLAM is stated to be 2.000.000 yards, way too optimistic. I would say the effective attack range for any chance to hit a target is exactly from where you are: 50-60 nautical miles, this gives a good pre-alert time, albeit having a travel range of 500-1500 miles.
TLAMs are not ballistic rockets AFAIK, they travel only about 450-500 knots at sea level or where you program them to fly, easy targets for any better AA defence I'd think. Also you are NOT supposed (in 1984, even less in 1968) to have any control once launched or multiple PAPs (see Red Storm Rising for what this games refers on).

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by XenonSurf

Then what are you doing at 50ky at the port ?

My question exactly

Originally Posted by XenonSurf

Doesn't make sense if you are not supposed to fire from that range. In the game the max range for TLAM is stated to be 2.000.000 yards, way too optimistic. I would say the effective attack range for any chance to hit a target is exactly from where you are: 50-60 nautical miles, this gives a very reduced pre-alert time, albeit having a travel range of 500-1500 miles.

just because thats where you start, doesnt mean thats where you have to shoot... like i said in real life the TLAM can navigate to predetermined waypoints to avoid defended areas. in theory the TLAM should be able to navigate its way around the entire border of the map before running out of fuel. in a more realistic sense you should be able to set multiple waypoints (a la Jane's 688i) to go around the ships entirely, instead CW only lets you fire TLAMs in a straight line like all the other weapons in game... not realistic at all. The TLAM also flies too high in game... to avoid detection by on shore defenses it can fly nap of the earth which is also not simulated in game... some cruise missile types are "swarm weapons" meaning they are meant to be fired in large groups, even if half of the swarm is eliminated by defenses they cant shoot them all down.

Originally Posted by XenonSurf

TLAMs are not ballistic rockets AFAIK, they travel only about 450-500 knots at sea level or where you program them to fly, easy targets for any better AA defense I'd think. Also you are NOT supposed to have any control once launched (see Red Storm Rising for what this games refers on).

according to the United States Navy

TLAMs can loiter over a battle area and send back images of the scene to commanders allowing targets to be selected at will

TLAMs can also be re-programed mid flight via satellite to change course, abort, change targets or reroute the missile to any coordinates on earth within its cruise range.

the point of TLAMs is not to cruise straight through the enemy defenses and hope for the best, it was designed from the start as an intelligent smart weapon which could be steered around defended areas, fly under the radar, and be guided around SAM sites, AAA defenses, Ships etc. en route to the target

finally, launching the weapon from the submarine is a DEAD giveaway as to the submarine's position as it leaves an immediately visible plume of launch smoke and water about 50-100 feet into the air for some time. no commander in his right mind would take his boat to within 10 miles of the coast, in water barely 150 foot deep, while surrounded by ASW craft if multiple types and release this kind of weapon.

see the video here...

you have just alerted a Krivak, two Grishas, a Poti, 2 helicopters and an ASW maritime patrol plane - all within 5 miles of you - revealed your location, and you have literally 100 feet under your keel... its tactical suicide

[XenonSurf]

I'm sure since the year 2000 or so TLAMs have these characteristics, but not in 1984, and less in 1968, the time frames which CW plays the campaigns. I still have the manual of Red Storm Rising saying there are no multiple PAPs (waypoints), only 1 PAP you can set with a seeker of 60° once activated. And you have no control once launched.
Certainly the RSR manual doesn't reflect real capabilities of this magnificient weapon, so I'm still PUZZLED about this mission and the little distance to target