Should we start a topic on basic tactics?

[Kapitan]

I came from the older stuff going back to harpoon fleet command and then moved into sub command playing predominately the Akula, however in dangerous waters in the early days i did play the akula and kilo being proficient in both platforms quite highly i did sometimes run around in the 688i and seawolf and have a fair knowledge of them in game.

Way back when i met a guy called Madcap he was a frigate driver in seawolves and i must admit i hit a road block and a dam big one !

Now anyone in any previous MP game that took the FFG out i could normally sink inside 30 minuets that included the standard 10 minuet weapons free rule, except this guy.

Madcap i would say was thee most proficient FFG driver i have ever come across, now matter if i took the Akula or Seawolf he would always find me first, i would always be sunk within the hour and for him it was easy.

as the saying goes if you cant beat them join them

So i joined forces with madcap in a frigate and i must say he did teach me everything he knew and it wasn't long before we were an effective unit hours of endless fun with it.

this partnership spawned two things within seawolves a division which saw a split in the group and also two very well written books both are available on subsim download page

The Blue book is more up to date and is worth the read logic can also be applied to cold waters

The Red book has recently just been rediscovered and is also worth the read its older than the Blue book but a lot still applies.

Also take a peek at the FFG7 Guide this will give you some inclination of frigate operations.

[ET2SN]

The Red Book and Blue Book are excellent.
Kapitan, I hope you hang around this thread. He has a lot to teach us.
First, understand what game you're playing. DW and SC are the grand children of Harpoon. Sonalyst got involved when the Navy wanted a cost-effective training tool for Academy students so they could learn the basics of maneuvering and weapons deployment (ie, shooting the bad guys). The later release of Harpoon for the commercial PC market had to be "sanitized" but it wasn't sanitized that much. The basic ideas are still valid.

More than that, I would suggest learning how to develop your situational awareness (we'll get into this more in a later post). Knowing where you are and understanding where you want to be are crucial. That is very closely linked, and is different, for each platform. In other words, pick one platform and stick with it. Over time and with experience, you will learn your boat's strengths and weaknesses. It will become second nature. While I really like the attention to detail the RA folks have brought with their mods, I spend very little time looking at the 3D view during a fight. That is my one and only beef with Cold Waters. I can't develop that awareness if there are no stations to concentrate on. Maybe I'll do a re-think when CW2 or CW3 come out.

Some of you may have noticed that some of the rest have a deeper background in tactics. We literally lived this stuff for years at a time. Its how we got paid and advanced. Think of it this way, its hard not to get good at your job when you're on a three month deployment.
In contrast, the biggest thing I had to learn when playing 688I, Sub Command, and later Dangerous Waters was that they were games and not the real thing. The basics are there but I still had to adapt to what I was given. In that regard we're all on the same page.

In other words, am I saying you need to march down to the recruiter and volunteer so you can get experience? Hell no! There are a LOT of tough times you have to deal with in order to get to a small percentage of good times.

OK, so where are the tactics? We're getting there, trust me. The point of this post is to give yourself time to learn how to play the game. Whatever platform you choose to play, learn how drive it before you get in a fight. The early 688I missions that are included with RA are great for this, but take it to the next step. Go to the mission editor and create some missions where you're just goofing around in a harbor. Norfolk and Petropavlosk are great locations to do this. Get a good "feel" for how your platform handles. Get some experience working close to land and other ships. Try driving your platform in reverse while using the manual rudder station in Control. One of the keys to ship control is learning how your platform behaves as it transitions from forward movement to reverse. Another area to concentrate on is learning how to get the most out of your Nav Map view.

You may notice I'm being vague on some of this stuff. That's because a lot of these things are learned by doing. You can't learn a lot of this stuff by just reading about it, you have to give yourself the experience.

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

The Red Book and Blue Book are excellent.
Kapitan, I hope you hang around this thread. He has a lot to teach us.
First, understand what game you're playing. DW and SC are the grand children of Harpoon. Sonalyst got involved when the Navy wanted a cost-effective training tool for Academy students so they could learn the basics of maneuvering and weapons deployment (ie, shooting the bad guys). The later release of Harpoon for the commercial PC market had to be "sanitized" but it wasn't sanitized that much. The basic ideas are still valid.

More than that, I would suggest learning how to develop your situational awareness (we'll get into this more in a later post). Knowing where you are and understanding where you want to be are crucial. That is very closely linked, and is different, for each platform. In other words, pick one platform and stick with it. Over time and with experience, you will learn your boat's strengths and weaknesses. It will become second nature. While I really like the attention to detail the RA folks have brought with their mods, I spend very little time looking at the 3D view during a fight. That is my one and only beef with Cold Waters. I can't develop that awareness if there are no stations to concentrate on. Maybe I'll do a re-think when CW2 or CW3 come out.

Some of you may have noticed that some of the rest have a deeper background in tactics. We literally lived this stuff for years at a time. Its how we got paid and advanced. Think of it this way, its hard not to get good at your job when you're on a three month deployment.
In contrast, the biggest thing I had to learn when playing 688I, Sub Command, and later Dangerous Waters was that they were games and not the real thing. The basics are there but I still had to adapt to what I was given. In that regard we're all on the same page.

In other words, am I saying you need to march down to the recruiter and volunteer so you can get experience? Hell no! There are a LOT of tough times you have to deal with in order to get to a small percentage of good times.

OK, so where are the tactics? We're getting there, trust me. The point of this post is to give yourself time to learn how to play the game. Whatever platform you choose to play, learn how drive it before you get in a fight. The early 688I missions that are included with RA are great for this, but take it to the next step. Go to the mission editor and create some missions where you're just goofing around in a harbor. Norfolk and Petropavlosk are great locations to do this. Get a good "feel" for how your platform handles. Get some experience working close to land and other ships. Try driving your platform in reverse while using the manual rudder station in Control. One of the keys to ship control is learning how your platform behaves as it transitions from forward movement to reverse. Another area to concentrate on is learning how to get the most out of your Nav Map view.

You may notice I'm being vague on some of this stuff. That's because it a lot of these things are learned by doing. You can't learn a lot of this stuff by just reading about it, you have to give yourself the experience.

Must say the Nav map in CW lacks some what in terms of capability whats more CW is more arcade simulation and something i'm not too big a fan of.

Spending many years in DW using the FFG taught me how to counter submarines very well, i found myself using its strengths to weed out the submarines weaknesses, i can also lay out some good buoy patterns with the helo's and that is crucial to executing a successful attack it can also serve as great intelligence gathering.

I even adapted the helo's mission profile which is primarily to hunt for submarines into a forward observer and also AEW roles often sacrificing one helo in a mission to this role to provide me an over terrain radar warning, something the FFG guide and many others wont tell you about you could also use link data to view the on board helo camera and thus bring down the 4.5in shells on target accurately.

One of the biggest mistakes a sub driver always made when they entered a MP game and started at PD was to dive deep, turn and run realistically a submarine can fight the entire battle at PD and never really exceeding 5 knots.

i have a fair bit to do with regards to a project i have on going but il stick around and throw some points out there for sure.

[ET2SN]

So, on to a more "meat and potatoes" post.

Let's visit our old friend, the Knife Fight.
You're in close to the bad guys. Really, really, close and its turned into a real hairball.

If you're driving a frigate or helo, pat yourself on the back. You're in your best position to kick some A and you have all of the advantages in your favor.

If you're driving a sub, WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU IN A KNIFE FIGHT??
You have NO advantages, your platform wasn't even designed for this type of engagement, and the ONLY thing that will save you is Luck. You don't want to count on luck so why not put yourself in a better situation?
Even if we're talking about a sub-v-sub fight, you're still at a disadvantage. Your fire control wasn't designed for this stuff.

THE BEST WAY FOR A SUB TO WIN A KNIFE FIGHT IS SIMPLE, NEVER GET INTO A KNIFE FIGHT.
If you're working a contact closer than 5,000 yards and you aren't in a "track and trail" situation, you're doing something wrong.
In essence, you're minimizing your advantages on purpose.
Stick to what your platform is best at. Your torpedo pre-sets are a pretty good clue about where you should be. Take that number and double it.

If you do find yourself stuck in a close-in situation, get out. Go deep (the fast end of your cavitation curve plus another 100 feet), pick a general direction ("somewhere over there"), cross your fingers, and start making tracks.

If you're in a sub-v-sub fight, trust your instincts on how to get the other guy frustrated. Use the stuff that's frustrated you in the past. Think about running at a full bell and using small rudder angles to create a curving path. Fire control stations HATE curving paths.