Attacking enemy ships in rough weather

[p.jakub88]

Hello everyone,

I am currently playing RSRDC_TMO_V502 career.

Is there a good method to sink enemy merchant ships using torpedoes in bad weather?

Attacking them on surface with deck gun is impossible due to high waves.

Many times i was forced to break my attack due to the bad weather.

Even aiming with periscope is hard and i am loosing the sight of my target, so firing torpedoes is simply a waste.

I heard about a sonar only attack, how it could be done?

Thank You in advance for reply.

Jakub

[p.jakub88]

I found the Silent Hunter 4 WernerSobe Sonar Only Tutorial on YouTube.

The problem is, that the target draft will be not available, since we don't see the enemy ship through periscope in order to match it to the recognition manual and obtain its draft info.

I guess, that in this case it would be best to set the torpedoes depth to 0.

Moreover, this method could not be used against enemy warships, because they will locate You due to the active sonar ping sending.

I will try the method shown in the tutorial video in my career when i locate enemy merchant ship during bad weather.

[Outeniqua]

Originally Posted by p.jakub88

Moreover, this method could not be used against enemy warships, because they will locate You due to the active sonar ping sending.

I will try the method shown in the tutorial video in my career when i locate enemy merchant ship during bad weather.

Actually, none of the Silent Hunter games model the AI with active intercept. So you can use active ping as much as you want against a warship and it will be none the wiser.

If you want to go full subnerd, you can also develop a track with hydrophones only doing TMA. There's some good tutorials out there to explain how its done. I've only mainly used it to develop a track that I use to plot an intercept of very distant contacts, then rather doing something else when the target is close to refine the solution.

[p.jakub88]

Originally Posted by Outeniqua

Actually, none of the Silent Hunter games model the AI with active intercept. So you can use active ping as much as you want against a warship and it will be none the wiser.

Hello,

quote from the "High Realism Tutorial" from OTC 1.5 mod (which i am using):

"A quick word of caution:

Don’t think for a minute you can ping off merchants when an enemy warship is near. You just sent out a red flare that says “Hey, I’m over here”!! The sonar ping will put the warship in a trot heading in your direction with bad intentions."

So, maybe You are right in the stock SH4, but not in this case.

[Outeniqua]

Originally Posted by p.jakub88

Hello,

quote from the "High Realism Tutorial" from OTC 1.5 mod (which i am using):

"A quick word of caution:

Don’t think for a minute you can ping off merchants when an enemy warship is near. You just sent out a red flare that says “Hey, I’m over here”!! The sonar ping will put the warship in a trot heading in your direction with bad intentions."

I wasn't aware you were using that mod. In that case you have two options. Don't attempt to generate a solution, open distance and disengage, which is probably what the real skippers did. There will be more targets and better weather.

Or develop a solution with hydrophone bearings only. It's not too difficult, but it is time consuming and laborious, however it can be done. It's probably how HMS Venturer developed their solution that sunk U-864. If you can pull it off, it's extremely satisfying.

[p.jakub88]

Originally Posted by Outeniqua

I wasn't aware you were using that mod. In that case you have two options. Don't attempt to generate a solution, open distance and disengage, which is probably what the real skippers did. There will be more targets and better weather.

Or develop a solution with hydrophone bearings only. It's not too difficult, but it is time consuming and laborious, however it can be done. It's probably how HMS Venturer developed their solution that sunk U-864. If you can pull it off, it's extremely satisfying.

Hello,

ok no problem i did not mentioned it before.

Still i could use active sonar against lone enemy merchant ships, which i encountered many during my few RSRDC careers.

So far, i only came across 1 convoy in the Sea of Japan in the Summer of 1943. However, it was during a night and the weather conditions were good.

I even sunk a escort destroyer, leaving a merchant ship defenceless. I sunk him with deck gun, because i was low on torpedoes due to the cat and mouse game with the destroyer .

After few hourse came the rest of the convoy which i bypassed, because there was from 3-4 escort ships there.

[Rockin Robbins]

Actually, how would your ping tell them where you are. It CAN tell them you're out there, but getting direction from a single ping would be just about impossible, only happening if you have the directional listening head pointed directly at the submarine. Even then you would not know that you were pointed at the submarine more than "in the general area."

I say trading information with the enemy where you get enough information to kill but they only learn you're out there is a trade I'll make every time.

[p.jakub88]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Actually, how would your ping tell them where you are. It CAN tell them you're out there, but getting direction from a single ping would be just about impossible, only happening if you have the directional listening head pointed directly at the submarine. Even then you would not know that you were pointed at the submarine more than "in the general area."

I say trading information with the enemy where you get enough information to kill but they only learn you're out there is a trade I'll make every time.

Hi,

i just quoted what CapnScurvy written in his "High Realism Tutorial".

I know, that by using active sonar in presence of enemy warships they will discover only Your estimate position. You could still avoid escort.

[p.jakub88]

On one of my last patrols i was finally able to sink an enemy ship using the sonar only technique. The weather was bad with high waves and poor visibility. The enemy merchant ship was hit by single MK23 torpedo and sunk .

Sonar only technique (Youtube tutorial video posted by user HalfjackHJ).

PART I:



PART II:

[Maxt]

I have a success sinking ships in bad weather without any visual contact, just by my sonar man and four bearings method (without the 5th) while on the move. Then I set course to intercept for gyro 0 shot, and adjust the final range by active sonar... Oh and I'm not using position keeper in this case.

In addition I want to say, when it's raining, DD's should struggle trying to find you because they will not be able to hear your engines.
So just start moving...


Good luck!

[p.jakub88]

Originally Posted by Maxt

I have a success sinking ships in bad weather without any visual contact, just by my sonar man and four bearings method (without the 5th) while on the move. Then I set course to intercept for gyro 0 shot, and adjust the final range by active sonar... Oh and I'm not using position keeper in this case.

In addition I want to say, when it's raining, DD's should struggle trying to find you because they will not be able to hear your engines.
So just start moving...


Good luck!

Hello Maxt,

i prefer the technique presented in the videos, because it is not that hard - only time consuming process.

I never attempted a torpedo attack without Position Keeper enabled. Moreover, i always started my calculations while my submarine was not moving - just like shown in the attached videos.

Earlier i succesfully hit a merchant ship using only sonar, but i only damaged it. However, that was more luck than anything else - i didn't use any sophisticated method. Later i found the sonar only technique video on Youtube.

I always attacked enemy convoys when the weather wasn't good and at night with limited visibility. So, the enemy could not detect me so easily - either visually or by sonar. Only one time i attacked enemy convoy during day in perfect weather conditions - i ended up blown up by escort depth charges being surrounded by 3 escort ships. However i am using TMO 2.5. Still there is a chance to avoid the escort before the attack and after it - in which i was successful few times. I also check the depth under the keel, in case that i will need to dive deep (like 400 feet or more). From my experience i must say, that the Formosa Strait is a dangerous place for a submarine - shallow waters, narrow passage and close to hostile territories.

[Napalm42]

Another real skipper technique I haven't seen mentioned is actually rather simple: wait it out!

If you have the chance, shadow your target vessel in hydrophone/radar range until weather improves, then go for an End Around attack.

[p.jakub88]

Originally Posted by Napalm42

Another real skipper technique I haven't seen mentioned is actually rather simple: wait it out!

If you have the chance, shadow your target vessel in hydrophone/radar range until weather improves, then go for an End Around attack.

Hello Napalm42,

i saw the End Around maneuver in one of the Let's Play videos of the user DangerDeadpan uploaded on Youtube. However, he played unmodded SH4.
I used this technique few times on lonely merchant ships with success.

There is no chance to overtake a fast moving enemy convoy while submerged - You will simply run out of batteries. So, when You fired Your first torpedo they will start evasive maneuvers and You will have usually all nearby escorts heading Your way (at least in TMO 2.5). Even catching up with surface merchant ships is hard. If they change the course on the last possible moment You will have very little time to react. So, setting up Your firing position too early could be a mistake. I am usually waiting when a ship is with 5 nm distance or less, but not so close that it could engage me with deck gun.

[CptGlub]

The two cents of a relatively new CC:

I've had some small successes with no-visual/sonar attacks. The key seems to be getting in close (mind your min arming distances!) and being on the 90. If you can get a full 90 degree broadside setup, it will forgive quite a bit of inaccuracy in your computations. Bracket if you've got the torps to spare.

I'd be careful with running torps on the surface or shallow in rough seas. Not for sure on this but once in rough seas I launched four fish on surface runs. Each one detonated when they armed just a few hundred yards from launch. Since then, I've used a minimum depth of 10 feet when in rough seas.

Take it all with a dash of sea salt as I'm still learning.

[Downunderjock]

Not totally, impossible. Just a bit difficult though.
But if you are sort of up close and personal and at the right angle of the ship, it can be done.
Even, destroyers.