Realism mod (discussion)

Originally Posted by jenrick

Nippelspanner:

Let's just say that a soviet sub madly pinging away 50% of every hour is absolute 100% real world accurate (this is merely a thought exercise I'm not saying that is or is not accurate). Would you want CW to simulate that? If the answer is yes, then this becomes a questions of who has sources to prove what approach is correct.

If you do not want CW to simulate that, then what would you like it to do and why? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm curious.

-Jenrick

In the end, I'll always sign in with realism.

While I heard Russians went active more often, I just cannot possibly imagine they did so all the time. Especially submarines. It just defeats their whole purpose, we all know going active is but a huge flashlight in the dark.
On top, active sonar technology wasn't that great during that time either, so it's not like a magic "unveal all" button anyways - but it sure is a reliable way to let anyone with "ears" know you are on that exact bearing.
How is this an "advantage"?

No, sorry, don't buy it one bit.

[PL_Harpoon]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

In the end, I'll always sign in with realism.

While I heard Russians went active more often, I just cannot possibly imagine they did so all the time. Especially submarines. It just defeats their whole purpose, we all know going active is but a huge flashlight in the dark.
On top, active sonar technology wasn't that great during that time either, so it's not like a magic "unveal all" button anyways - but it sure is a reliable way to let anyone with "ears" know you are on that exact bearing.
How is this an "advantage"?

No, sorry, don't buy it one bit.

So, what would your do if you were, say, a captain of a Soviet Victor I sub tasked with finding and killing an LA class submarine?

Originally Posted by PL_Harpoon

So, what would your do if you were, say, a captain of a Soviet Victor I sub tasked with finding and killing an LA class submarine?

Hope the US commander has a bad day, hope the odds are somehow in my favor?
I sure will not light a friggin emergency flare in the middle of the night hoping that I might coincidentally find something - while everything else dozens of miles away definitely now have found me.

I would use active sonar only if I know something is out there and is in range of my weapons.
What point does it make to shoot a Russian fish after some Los Angeles class sub that can easily evade/outrun it at distance while being able to shoot back 4 of the best torpedoes of that Era?

It's suicide.

[PL_Harpoon]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Hope the US commander has a bad day, hope the odds are somehow in my favor?

You'll agree that's not a very good tactic, right?

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

I sure will not light a friggin emergency flare in the middle of the night hoping that I might coincidentally find something - while everything else dozens of miles away definitely now have found me.

I would use active sonar only if I know something is out there and is in range of my weapons.
What point does it make to shoot a Russian fish after some Los Angeles class sub that can easily evade/outrun it at distance while being able to shoot back 4 of the best torpedoes of that Era?

It's suicide.

I'm not defending this tactic just because I like the game. If I feel like something needs fixing, like for ex. insertion and land strike missions which are currently not only unrealistic but just straight up broken I won't try to defend them.

It's just that after playing the game I found it harder to fight against enemy subs which are using active sonar to find me than those that are just "silently" strolling around. I have no problems getting in their baffles, and from there it's pretty much game over for them.

Keep in mind that the encounter with enemy sub in CW starts at about 10-15km. So, my reasoning is, they picked you up while cruising at 10-25 knots, and now that you are within the reach of their torpedoes they start pinging.
Given that they happily use ASW missile-torpedoes it seems like a valid option.

EDIT:

BTW. Out of all the people complaining about it still no one has proposed a better tactic.

Originally Posted by PL_Harpoon

You'll agree that's not a very good tactic, right?

Oh definitely, but that's pretty much the only thing one could do in that specific scenario, good tactic or not.

Originally Posted by PL_Harpoon

I'm not defending this tactic just because I like the game. If I feel like something needs fixing, like for ex. insertion and land strike missions which are currently not only unrealistic but just straight up broken I won't try to defend them.

Yeah I hope they completely re-write these missions asap, I was mad like Hell first time I had to insert SEALs. I was looking forward to a very different mission, and later found myself in a ridiculous Michael Bay movie.

Originally Posted by PL_Harpoon

It's just that after playing the game I found it harder to fight against enemy subs which are using active sonar to find me than those that are just "silently" strolling around. I have no problems getting in their baffles, and from there it's pretty much game over for them.

Hehe, you really go for their baffles? Why? Are you bored?
Because it isn't necessary at all.

I just send a fish or two down their bearing, activating them early, waiting for a very, very high chance to actually score a kill - unlike in a submarine simulation (FA, DW, ...) where this will most likely never be enough to score a kill as enemy subs actually evade torpedoes.
In CW, they just do some half-assed attempts from what I've gathered.

Originally Posted by PL_Harpoon

Keep in mind that the encounter with enemy sub in CW starts at about 10-15km. So, my reasoning is, they picked you up while cruising at 10-25 knots, and now that you are within the reach of their torpedoes they start pinging.
Given that they happily use ASW missile-torpedoes it seems like a valid tactic.

I really got used to ambush any target if possible, and since recon is mostly pretty good, it is possible in 9/10 of my encounters, meaning I am at 5kts - and I doubt something gave away my presence in these situations.

Ultimately, by now I love to go against subs, because I know I'm in for some dirt-cheap kills.
And I wonder if that's how it should be.

[PL_Harpoon]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Hehe, you really go for their baffles? Why? Are you bored?
Because it isn't necessary at all.

Yes, but it's more fun

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

In CW, they just do some half-assed attempts from what I've gathered.

I agree 100%. I already wrote in some other topic that AI torpedo evasion is currently bad. Right now MK48's are pretty much fire-and-forget weapons.

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

I really got used to ambush any target if possible, and since recon is mostly pretty good, it is possible in 9/10 of my encounters, meaning I am at 5kts - and I doubt something gave away my presence in these situations.

Ultimately, by now I love to go against subs, because I know I'm in for some dirt-cheap kills.
And I wonder if that's how it should be.

Also agree. The thing is, it doesn't really matters if they're pinging or not.

Now, to get back on topic (stuff that we already can change ourselves), I'm already working on a couple of tweaks to if not fix then at least to improve some of those issues. I think in a day or two it will be ready for you guys to test.