Manchester Arena 'explosion'

[Von Due]

The way we are pretending this
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...strategy-trump
or this
https://newrepublic.com/article/1153...know-so-little
plays absolutely no part in it, and throwing a hissing fit every time it's pointed out that it does indeed happen, and throwing a tantrum every time its pointed out that this is a recipe for extremism, is not lost on the rest of the world. Just saying.

When the choice is cheap oil, cheap gas for your car, cheap food, cheap clothes and sneakers and terrorist attacks

OR

more expensive oil, more expensive gas, food, clothes and sneakers, and fewer terrorist attacks,

do you think our Govts are going for the latter? How much are we willing to pay? Won't happen and not much but we are told to dream on, we can have the best of both worlds and nothing bad will happen. It's a dream of convenience and entitlement.

As for the attacks now, they are as horrifying as they always are, no matter where and how.

[Catfish]

^ Wait you don't say that we The West is somehow responsible for middle-east terrorism? England and the US never intervened in Persia, Iraq or Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan etc., and all those drones are flying humanitarian missons

Funny how just of all those military heads or politicians who always quote (mostly wrong) that "he who forgets the past is condemned to repeat it" never mention what their nation and military did before, in regions of the world they had no real legal right to be. Oil and gas, ore resources, weapon deals, and political influence against the "commies" anyone.

No i am not of the opinion that this justifies the killing of innocent people here or anywhere for whatever justification (religious or political), but it may be part of an explanation. Our meddling over there helped breed those terrorists, and the drone attacks killing more innocent people (including children) than criminals now give them the perfect pretense of retaliation.
BS of course, but we should know how easily minds can be manipulated.

The question is, what can we do about that?
If anyone here would be willing to reach out a hand, he's a traitor or a commie. Or he may be plain out rejected, even if he means it. Centuries of treason and military violence cannot be so easily be wiped out with a smile and an outstretched hand, with weapon lobbyists smiling in the background.
Even if someone here would really support such a policy for education and good long-term relationship it would take decades to see any improvement. Not that there is anything like that in the making, or thinking. Obama tried, but he failed, because of those pregone centuries of his own and other western nation's politics.

So, what next? Show strength? More drones? Will that help?

[Von Due]

What to do? I have no complete answers but pretending that this is a simple good vs evil thing, that this is a cultural thing, is not going to give a solution that excludes genocide.

Vote for those who oppose western interference with other sovereign states and watch how reality kicks in leaving those politicians impotent. Businesses and alliances matter, internally and internationally, national security is the front end of that, or in many cases the cover for actions done ranging from unethical to criminal. This is what we have been fighting for, not against.

Strong ciphers for the public is the best gift we ever gave terrorists and organized crime and the lobby and supporters of strong public ciphers have repeatedly stated that protection of these criminals and plotters is the price we have to pay for "freedom" in the digital world.

We have very much been part of the problem but we refuse to acknowledge that. What to do? Step one has to be that acknowledgement.

[Skybird]

The US war 2003 and the inapt handling of the time after, has created the IS. British mid east polcies from teh past have created the lines drawn on the maps, with help by the French and some more, forcing together many people who had open bills with each other since generations and until today.

But the hostile and racist content of the Quranic ideology forgoes all this . The ongoing Muslim conquest against Asia, India, Europe, was not provoked. The Sunni-Shia civil war was not provoked by Europe. The invasion of Spain and the balkans and Aegian region, was not provoked. The claim to raise a caliphate in christian Europe, was not provoked. The attack on Constantinople, was not provoked. The crusades started not as a provokation, but a defensive response against ongoing aggressiona nd conquest. to recapture territory that was lost to a hostile aggressor. Grenada wa sno pacifist multicultural place, but a place ruled by the sword of Islam and Jews and Chrstians subjugated, progroms were not uncommon, and they were banned froms ocial highe rlife and better jobs, and were discmrinated by the law. This is not what tolernce and multiculturalism is about.

The problem is not so much our past. We casted our shadows, yes - but most people today understood that, and do not do that anymore, do not want to do it anymore. We moved on, we developed beyiond the medieval. islam still is stuck in the dark age. Its evil is inherent to its genes in that it is alraedy founded and artuclated by Muhammad. War and raids and violence and intimidation and hate and persecution and fear is all that is his heritage.

So do not expect ever that somethign people comes from those following Muhammad and declaring his words holy. Islam is a warrior ideology, strength through totalitarian control and uniform unity. Ther eis no other military effort in the known history of man that ever was as far reaching and long-lasting, than Islam, and no other idoleogy, including Chrstianity, has ever brought so many wars and has ever destroyd so many other foreign cultures and has signed respnsible for the slaughteirng of so many people, like Islam.

And whn you rmeind of these simple histori fact, you get dmenised, criminlaised, bullied, threatened. Not only by them, but by our own media, authorities, laws, people.

The West is a mental asylum.

[Catfish]

Even if you completely rule out "the past" (which is bs since we live in the time heavily influenced by the past and still present politics, see Trump in Saudi Arabia), but let out ye olde innocent defensive crusades and so on, what about the present, happening right now?

Did you care to read the two links vonDue posted? What would you say if they accidentally kill your children because your neighbour might be an "insurgent". And it is not an isolated case. The hate that may derive from this has nothing to do with religion.

[propbeanie]

All I can say is "read history", like from the 7th century time frame. As for the US involvement, all I'll say is "Thomas Jefferson", and it did not involve oil... and what started "The Great War", and who was one of the main antagonists?... What was that empire called again?

[Catfish]

^ huh what has this to do with the UK and US manipulating governments in the middle east for oil in the 20ieth century, or with the drone war?