Why Trump - the white riot

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Oberon

And then there's Pence...I feel bad for women and the LBTGQ community with him around as VP, it's a definite setback for them, but the people who voted for Trump don't really care about that, so what can you do?

53% of white women voted for Trump, 10% more than voted for Clinton. White women represented 37% of voters.

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/...onal/president

you really think white women don't care what happens to women?

We really have to get past this Clintonite/Dem propaganda that Trump, the GOP and their supporters are all sexist, racist, fascists, etc.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by agathosdaimon

yes i agree, the validation it gives to bigotry and violence and sexual assault is all quite distressing, - the worst in humanity is coming out , - there have been some friends on fb reporting of mexican women in their town having dog excrement thrown at them, and in Albuquerque shops putting whites only signs in their windows, and elsewhere a brown skinned person being told they cant ride the bus anymore - i forget where that was.

I seriously doubt any of that has substance. Scaremongering.

Don't worry, there are plenty of us non-PC Americans who won't sit idly by for something like that.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by agathosdaimon

yes i agree, the validation it gives to bigotry and violence and sexual assault is all quite distressing, - the worst in humanity is coming out , - there have been some friends on fb reporting of mexican women in their town having dog excrement thrown at them, and in Albuquerque shops putting whites only signs in their windows, and elsewhere a brown skinned person being told they cant ride the bus anymore - i forget where that was.

I think the most unnerving thing i read was that Gay bar patrons in New Orleans have allegedly been told to "Get ready, fags" by hecklers after the election. - i hope this one is not true, because it has just this horrible, numbing vibe of something coming.... if it is true, i hope it is no more than empty threats, but even these are corrosive enough to the social fabric

Hate crime is going to rise, I'm sorry to report, but it will and it will rise by a double digit percentage. After Brexit we had a lot of similar incidents, and I believe hate crime reports rose by between 40-60%. For certain groups of people, America is going to be a nasty place to live for the next few months.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I seriously doubt any of that has substance. Scaremongering.

Don't worry, there are plenty of us non-PC Americans who won't sit idly by for something like that.

It'll happen, Neal, and there'll be more. I'm sorry but there's a deep undercurrent of some very nasty sentiment in society right now and having a man who has appealed to some of those people become President has brought that undercurrent bubbling to the surface, it's encouraged them.
Take what has happened here as an example as what is going to happen to the US:

http://www.theatlantic.com/news/arch...crimes/503951/

https://www.ft.com/content/9b2ec1a6-...e-b428cb934b78


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7407951.html

[agathosdaimon]

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

Problem here is - as Steve already pointed out - that both sides have quoted otherside's candidates selectively. If you see controversial "quote" from someone, if at all possible take a long breath and listen the full speech or interview of person in question.

Selective quoting isn't practice limited to elections either. It happens every now and then even when people are making supposedly nonpartisan documentaries.

but this kind of opinion on citing anything then falls into being part of some infallible narrative - ie, thats a selective quote it doesnt matter -okay, so what only texts in full should be posted? no one should do documentaries? no one should quote anyone?
No matter what one says, once we settle our minds on one perspective or another no amount of information to the contrary will change the side we have picked to be on it seems.

I think rather than just dismissing every quote or worse, the very concept of quoting at all, out of hand, we should hear and respond always to the information presented. This is how a constructive discussion can be had, we work through the information that each side presents, and if something that one side presents is false, then the side saying it is false should give explanation as to why they believe it so - and by this i mean the content of what is said, not just running with the pre-formed view because so and so said it, it must by virtue of this be false..... claiming someone is biased is meaningless if what they are pointing out are the actual sentences uttered or statements written. The person may very well have their own political affiliation, but pretty much everyone does and anyone who claims they dont, well each side just accuses them of bias as soon as that "neutral" person says something that conflicts with a position that one side holds

claiming every time some information doesnt fit ones narrative that said information can be ignored because a biased person said it, really makes any kind of discussion impossible doesnt it?

[Skybird]

I say I do not expect much from this new administration.

BUT:

lets give them a chance at least to mess things up - or to surprise everybody for the better.

Campaigning is one thing, and it is a good argument against modern so-called democracy itself, as already either Mark Twain or Churchill observed and stated. The everyday political decision making and governing - that is something totally different. Trump at least was witty enough to make not millions but billions, so as long as he was not rightout criminal or was rightout lucky all the time, he cannot be that dumb as he posed as in campaign.

Clinton said: now the man deserves a chance. I say: now give him at least a chance. He would not be the first who had either his wings cut by the needs of reality - or who learned by the burdens of the office to grow beyond his initial limits. Obama was hyped so much 9 years ago that he seemed to jump like a tiger - but he landed like a bedside rug. Or does anyone still think he is the revoked messiah who left heaven and came down to Earth again, like some people seemed to have thougt 8 years ago? The same fate can happen to Trump: high flying claims and plans, little deeds, and a negative total bilance.

Trump has one huge advantage, although this is, by its essence and nature, also a risk: he is not well-connected and established in the political establishment, and maybe will not care to shake and to rattle it up. That can be a good thing. The risk there is, is that he may practice kind of nepotism when finding personnel for his round tables and boards of advisors.

But that is somethign the two parties are practicing since decades themselves.

People wanted to elect a president, and so they did. Lets see how he performs. Condemning him we can do when we see he starts to mess things up even more than they already are. - Where is the outrage over Obama's disastrous fiscal bilance, and debts that exploded in his spending frenzy? His massive geostrategic weaking of the US role in the world, his violation of fundamental American and Wetsern geostrategic interests? Over the falling number of total jobs, usually hidden behind claims that of these fewer jobs less jobs stay open and unemployed ? His administration paints losses in available job numbers as growing employment rates, which is not hilarious anymore, but is rightout fraudulent statistics. The only positive thing I say about Obama is that he did not start, like many of his predecessors, additonal new wars that were no wars of need but wars that were desired. And even that gets thrown a shadow on by the fact that he has multiplied the dimension of constant American drone warfare and number of "collateral damages".

So really: give Trump those 100 or even 200 days and see what he wants and what he does. And then we talk again. I gave Obama that chance. I gave Bush that chance. Both failed. Still I give Trump that same chance. And this although I absolutely cannot stand this man.

Less emotion and more plain soberness. Before he can be assessed, he needs some time to actually produce something that can be assessed.

[GoldenRivet]

they wont be happy until whites in America exist only in the text of history books

then they wont be happy until all those books are burned

...........

i didn't vote for trump because he was white. i was equally prepared to vote for ben carson or allen west (God willing he runs one day!), neither of whom are white (i didnt vote in any of the primaries... my bad, i was too damned busy working for a living)

As a good for nothing whip cracking honky (because clearly thats how the left views me) It took me two minutes to vote, and in that two minutes i had a voice that said; i am sick of a government which can force me to buy a product or service under duress, i am sick of a government that uses every tragedy as a knee jerk reaction to further limit my constitutional rights, i am sick of a government that rewards me for my 90 hour work week by stealing $20-25,000 of my annual income for pet projects and failing, corrupt social programs.

I'm tired of a congress that rams bills through their hallowed halls without reading them. I'm tired of congressmen who can sit, unchallenged for decades. I have had enough of an administration that completes illegal, back alley deals with Iran in the middle of the night. I have had enough of an administration that scorns police and celebrates criminal behavior and thug culture. I am done with a government that abandons our allies, and our veterans, and leaves out soldiers to die by ignoring 13 hours of requests for backup and then says "what difference does it make?"...

So fine, i give up, if having an opinion that differs from yours and voting for a candidate with whom i agree and you do not is my "white riot" - to hell with it... i guess thats exactly what i did.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by agathosdaimon

i am relieved that people on this forum seem to grasp the grave seriousness of electing a sociopath to run and to now have free licence to do whatever he wants in the US and the world with a party of sociopaths controlling all the branches of government, who are not going to stand up to him at all , and in fact their own plans are just as terrifying and they are more bent on pushing them through, which given how little trump reads, will probably sail through with no mention at all.

I'm sorry guy, I just can't get onboard with Myle Cyrus dry screwing women and holding blown up penises while performing. The sociopaths have spoken. It appears they have been silent for the past 8 years.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

When white people attempt to use their political will to pull their country out of the trash heap, it's called racism. Notice liberals don't spend much time calling black people racist when they turn out in record numbers to elect the first "black" president? Or when Middle Eastern inhabitants denigrate Western culture? Or when Hispanics demand the US pull down its borders and dismantle its immigration laws in order to allow more Hispanics to enter? You think the Hispanics would be so motivated to allow millions of Frenchmen to enter the US? Never hear them make a peep about this.

The blacks coming out to vote BO is affectionately called the Obama Coalition. The angry white dudes are affectionately known as Deplorables. As a side note...there are plenty angry white ladies that voted Trump.

In the meantime Kellyanne Conway ran a resounding campaign for Trump. FIRST WOMAN TO DO SO! Not a peep from say oh...the hags on The View.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Oberon

It'll happen, Neal, and there'll be more. I'm sorry but there's a deep undercurrent of some very nasty sentiment in society right now and having a man who has appealed to some of those people become President has brought that undercurrent bubbling to the surface, it's encouraged them.
Take what has happened here as an example as what is going to happen to the US:

http://www.theatlantic.com/news/arch...crimes/503951/

https://www.ft.com/content/9b2ec1a6-...e-b428cb934b78


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7407951.html

You sure know a lot for a guy who's never been here.

So much distortion coming from those links, I'm not even going to bother.

[STEED]

Trump is not in the White House yet and people seem to think they know all the facts on what he will do. So can you tell me Saturday's national lottery winning numbers?

[Skybird]

For whatever it is worth, here is a comment by Henryk Broder, in German, focussing on the typical German and EUcratic arrogant and haughty reaction to Trump's victory.

Especially Merkel'S reaction, when I heard it yesterday, left me speechless regarding the ammount of arrogance and reality-disconnection she shamelessly displayed - as if she, Germany, us, would be in any position to lecture America this way. Disgusting. You hold such speeches when you are in the stronger seat of the two. Not when you are the net benefitter sitting in the weaker seatand depending more on the other than the other depends on you.

Interestingly she does not direct such words at heads of states that already do damage - Erdoghan for example. Merkel is still quite cozy to him. No German demand voiced this clearly to respect "shared values" when referring to Turkey.

https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommenta...erachtung.html

I do not hide that I feel some Schadenfreude for the European self-proclaimed elites in their ivory towers, and I hope that Trump plays tough on us - we deserve it, I think. We have taken the free ride America privides us with especially in the field of military and security since much too long time already. Time to learn again how it tastes to need caring for our safety all by ourselves again, instead of bribing ourselves out of all messes we manouver ourselves into in our moral quest to missionize the world with our superior socialist and politically most correct "values".

Yes, some Schadenfreude on my side for sure. After all, I'm still just human.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

You sure know a lot for a guy who's never been here.

So much distortion coming from those links, I'm not even going to bother.

Ah, the location defence, excellent. Well done.

I hope that America proves me wrong, I hope that these non-PC Americans of yours come out and defend the people who are going to get attacked, and yes, that includes the possibility of Trump supporters being attacked too before someone starts, no-one should have to face persecution because of their religion, race, sexual orientation, gender or political choices.
Unfortunately in the aftermath of our referendum, thanks to some of the rhetoric used during it, people were facing persecution and discrimination for one or more of those reasons, and I don't think that saying "It couldn't happen here" will defend America from the same outcome.
On the bright-side, the spike does seem to have calmed back down again now, presumably for us because the Brexit process is proceding at the speed of a flattened snail, but it gave that nasty side of society an airing because people in important places said things that resonated with them.

Of course, I'm just a foreigner, so who knows, eh?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

they wont be happy until whites in America exist only in the text of history books

then they wont be happy until all those books are burned

...........

Really?

[Oberon]

Kris Kobach, Mr S.B. 1070 has been named on Trumps transition team.