Spain goes bananas!!!

[tycho102]

Originally Posted by The Spain Herald

Tuesday, April 25, 2006

Originally Posted by The Spain Herald

The Spanish Socialist Party will introduce a bill in the Congress of Deputies calling for "the immediate inclusion of (simians) in the category of persons, and that they be given the moral and legal protection that currently are only enjoyed by human beings." The PSOE's justification is that humans share 98.4% of our genes with chimpanzees, 97.7% with gorillas, and 96.4% with orangutans.

It ain't April Fools.

I would certainly like to see a lot of animals treated better than they are, for the SPCA does not currently invoke enough summary executions to suit me, but I don't really think equating animals with people is the best course. I'm mostly pragmatic, but I've never been to Spain, and so I cannot say that there is necessarily a "better" way to go about such a solution. I do believe this will have futher reaching consequences than they might (or might not) think at present.



Sounds like an absolute hoot. Can't wait for it to hit their judicial system. GO SPAIN!

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Did anyone mention Planets of Apes?

Markus

[Troy McClure]The movie or the actual planet?[/Troy McClure]

[Fish]

Don't we share 90 % of our genes with worms? :hmm:

[Spoon 11th]

Originally Posted by Polak

Så sant som det är sagt...
For the moment I'm living in Sweden, it really hurts my heart when I see what has happened to this country... The socialist government is to blame for all this, they are putting Sweden, and the real Swedes in danger. I am really grateful for what Sweden has given me, in return I'm planing to vote on Sverige Demokraterna, a not so popular party among foreigners.

This is off topic, but how many muslims there are in Sweden? I've heard a number of 300,000.

This wikipedia page shows the demographics of islam and sweden is the only one of the listed countries that is missing the data.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Islam

Is your government hiding the number or what? In finland that number of 20,000 muslims is only an estimate, since most muslims are not registered worshippers. If some one of you know the amount, please edit the wikipedia page and add the number.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Godalmighty83

for gods sake noone tell them how much DNA we share with pigs.

We better give Pigs rights if we want to get on the Tellarite's good side... if they have a good side... awww screw it lets eat all the pigs and be friends with the Andorians!


Cap. Archer: "You people are uglier than I remember!"

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

And they're hitting the academic institutions, too!

Allthough subsim.com takes a liberal look at the freedom of expression, I would like to urge you NOT to start an international incident by publishing cartoons that might be considered offensive to apes/students.

Abraham

[Polak]

Originally Posted by Spoon 11th

This is off topic, but how many muslims there are in Sweden? I've heard a number of 300,000.

This wikipedia page shows the demographics of islam and sweden is the only one of the listed countries that is missing the data.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Islam

Is your government hiding the number or what? In finland that number of 20,000 muslims is only an estimate, since most muslims are not registered worshippers. If some one of you know the amount, please edit the wikipedia page and add the number.

I have heard numbers like that too, I personaly think that it's even bigger. My friend told me yesterday that the muslims in Sweden want to be calssefied as a minority people like the "Samer". Today when I was reading the newpaper I saw an article about the muslim community, they have gone so far that they want muslim law introduced in Sweden... Go democracy!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Polak

(...) they have gone so far that they want muslim law introduced in Sweden... Go democracy!

Islam wants all, not one bit less. Give it a small finger, and it wants the hand, the arm, and the rest of your body, saying it has a right to demand it, in the name of it's equal rank (means: superiority) compared to other cultures. I do not tolerate neither that claim for "equal value", nor it's demands.

Europeans are too well-meaning to understand this. They think in too friendly terms and scales, are not used to a deep-rooted aggressiveness like this anymore. They are too civilized, too reasonable. There is no peace in Islam's understanding as long as Islam is "challenged" by something that is not itself (due to it'S selfglorification it feels challenged by the simple existence of all and everything that is not itself, simply because this non-Islamic quality is there). That there is something non-Islamic - no matter what - already is an offense that must be deleted by overcoming it and making it to submit, or destroy it. Coexistence there has only been when the other side was too strong to be overturned, or Islam changed into something that still cosndiered itself to be islam, but had nothing to do with the original Islam anymore. What they could not acchieved by military terms, now they try by demographic force, and by turning our own laws and princicples against us, taking benefit of the fact that these prionciples are founded on preconditions and cultural definitions that are not shared by Islam and thus that do not limit it'S ambitions (the non-existing separation between chru8ch and poltiics being one of the most important, and most destructive from a perspective of european constitutions). That is no peaceful attitude of mind, or a wish from the heart, but an enforced seize-firing. It only lasts as long as Islam has not found other ways and energies to continue it'S cultural conquest. The crusades it holds the others guilty of - it is practising itself exessively, since the times of Muhammad. You Swedes would be better off if you clean these demands off the table completely, once and for all, without compromise.

High time that Europeans are no longer afraid to use the phrase "clash of civilizations", but demand such a clash from their leaderships. The enemy is crystal-clear, and he definetly is no friend of ours, and never has been in the last thosuands years, and longer.

Need a cold beer to get down again. If you ever see me laying dead on the floor, spare the cents to call the ambulance, but tell my chorpus a story like this, and see me standing up alive and in anger again within seconds!

[Polak]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Islam wants all, not one bit less. Give it a small finger, and it wants the hand, the arm, and the rest of your body, saying it has a right to demand it, in the name of it's equal rank (means: superiority) compared to other cultures. I do not tolerate neither that claim for "equal value", nor it's demands.

Europeans are too well-meaning to understand this. They think in too friendly terms and scales, are not used to a deep-rooted aggressiveness like this anymore. They are too civilized, too reasonable. There is no peace in Islam's understanding as long as Islam is "challenged" by something that is not itself (due to it'S selfglorification it feels challenged by the simple existence of all and everything that is not itself, simply because this non-Islamic quality is there). That there is something non-Islamic - no matter what - already is an offense that must be deleted by overcoming it and making it to submit, or destroy it. Coexistence there has only been when the other side was too strong to be overturned, or Islam changed into something that still cosndiered itself to be islam, but had nothing to do with the original Islam anymore. What they could not acchieved by military terms, now they try by demographic force, and by turning our own laws and princicples against us, taking benefit of the fact that these prionciples are founded on preconditions and cultural definitions that are not shared by Islam and thus that do not limit it'S ambitions (the non-existing separation between chru8ch and poltiics being one of the most important, and most destructive from a perspective of european constitutions). That is no peaceful attitude of mind, or a wish from the heart, but an enforced seize-firing. It only lasts as long as Islam has not found other ways and energies to continue it'S cultural conquest. The crusades it holds the others guilty of - it is practising itself exessively, since the times of Muhammad. You Swedes would be better off if you clean these demands off the table completely, once and for all, without compromise.

High time that Europeans are no longer afraid to use the phrase "clash of civilizations", but demand such a clash from their leaderships. The enemy is crystal-clear, and he definetly is no friend of ours, and never has been in the last thosuands years, and longer.

Need a cold beer to get down again. If you ever see me laying dead on the floor, spare the cents to call the ambulance, but tell my chorpus a story like this, and see me standing up alive and in anger again within seconds!

One good thing is that the Swedish integration minister is not caving in to their demands. But you never know what the Swedish communist pary and the enviormental party will do about this. I really think that they are stupid enough to support the muslims. I am glad that we dont have problems like this back in Poland.

[Happy Times]

I have heard numbers like that too, I personaly think that it's even bigger. My friend told me yesterday that the muslims in Sweden want to be calssefied as a minority people like the "Samer". Today when I was reading the newpaper I saw an article about the muslim community, they have gone so far that they want muslim law introduced in Sweden... Go democracy!

So there could be more than there are Finns in Sweden? A fast development have to say :hmm:

[Abraham]

First: this thread is seriously off topic.

Second: Skybird should take that cold beer and not be so pessimistic about the "clash of cultures" with Islam.

Third: we should all stop generalising Muslims and Islam.

In my opinion the "clash of cultures" is more a clash between Western - if not global - modernity - which by the way includes millions of self-proclaimed Muslims - and Medieval backwardness, which includes people of all religions, including - yes - many fundamental Muslims.
And the clash is about this:
The Muslim world is not really doing well, to put things mildly. It is characterized by corrupt undemocratic regimes, low levels of education, inequality between the sexes, lack of freedom and - in general - a poor economy that shows no steady growth.
When Muslims come to Europe they find - in general - a modern, highly develloped, democratic society, with constitutional rights for all its citizens, equality between sexes, freedom of religion, which shows compassion for the poor, the sick and the old.

That is the cultural shock and it's for them to cope with it.
Most recognise our society and our Western values as superior and support their new society, in order to profit from its rights and freedom. A minority doesn't. They do have a problem. But that is certainly not a problem of the whole Muslim community, but of a small and uncertain minority that has been shocked and made uncertain by the difference between the Muslim world and modernity.

Let's please keep our liberal society intact. Its the strongest weapon in a fight that we don't want, but fundamental Islam needs in order not to go down.
Instead of "fighting" the Muslim community we should actively support those Muslims, that integrate and accept our cultural values. We should show Muslims that thát's the way to reach a better future here in the West...

I believe Islam will have to revive and modernise within 10 or 20 years or become (again) the backward religion of the economical and cultural backward region of the world.
I bet Islam will lose 90% of its support in the West within a generation if it doesn't.
And I see more and more opposition from within the Muslim community itself against fundamentalists.
That's what's happening in Holland at least...

Let's be on guard, not against Muslims in general, but against Muslims that don't accept our culture and our values.

In the mean time we should all have a beer and chill out.

[Skybird]

That is exactly the attitude of Europe and Germany since several decades.

Islam has turned stronger, has revived it'S ambitions to become a more powerful player in the West, and has set up mutiple times as many players in Western countries since then. exactly because of this attitude and argumentation.

Obviously this does not tell you anything.

Islam sees itself as the end, as the fulfillment of all history there is. You talk of 20 years, or a generation, in an optimistic way beyond reason, in ignorration of over oinethousand years of history. I must not hesitate a second to know whom of you two will have the longer breath.

But I award you the EU medal for good intentions.

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That is exactly the attitude of Europe and Germany since several decades.

Not the Dutch attitude. That was one of promoting multi-culturalism and condoning Medieval behaviour as equal to our Western values...

Originally Posted by Skybird

Islam has turned stronger, has revived it'S ambitions to become a more powerful player in the West, and has set up mutiple times as many players in Western countries since then. exactly because of this attitude and argumentation.

I conceive Islam as weaker, even desperate in certain aspects...

Originally Posted by Skybird

Islam sees itself as the end, as the fulfillment of all history there is. You talk of 20 years, or a generation, in an optimistic way beyond reason, in ignorration of over oinethousand years of history. I must not hesitate a second to know whom of you two will have the longer breath.

Don't say such unfriendly things about me, we're on the same side! We both believe in the superiority of this Judeo-Christian heritage and its unique cultural and political historic development through the Renaissance, the Reformation and the Enlightment.
I have read your files on Islam. I find them a source of valid information. But you have become too pessimistic in the proces of studying Islam.

Islam is actually on the way back. Islam goes for quantity, not for quality, Islam can nowhere build a well-functioning modern society. We are living in a world of modern nation-states; Islam has no concept of the modern nation-state! We are living in a global economic society; productivity in Muslim countries is lower than in most - former - third world countries!
Granted, there are a couple of hundred, perhaps thousand, Muslim fanatics who are willing to blow themself up in order to establish a orthodox Muslim society in Western Europe. But you can never establish a change in society by blowing yourself up and wreak destruction.
Is America stronger or weaker after Sept. 11th 2001? Did Britain give in after the June bombings of last year? The net effect of extreme Muslim terrorism is zero. Doesn't bring their Islamic society any closer, on the contrary; people in the West like you and me are far more alert...

Originally Posted by Skybird

But I award you the EU medal for good intentions.

Thanks, I am honoured and will proudly accept it. I think good intentions and a liberal society will make the difference.

[Skybird]

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub501F42F1AA06...~Scontent.html

A big story in Germany currently. Once again, it's not the first time. We had several of such incidents in Germany in recent years.

these attempts to challenge German cultural habits and values are not coincidental, but are systematical efforts to make them give ground. They receive all support needed by Islamic groups and organizations. Fees for lawyers for example are paid by them. Socalled moderate Muslims are remarkably quite about such things. A small - a very small demo here, some halöf-heartly press conference there - but no active deeds, no binding self-obligation to deal with these "extremists" by themselves. I still wait for Muslim communities to fully cooperate with police and Verfassungsschutz when it comes to terror-suspects hiding in the middle of their communities. "They are Muslims", is their excuse if reduced to the essence of defending statements.

we have a saying here: "mitgefangen, mitgehangen", if the dictionary is right it compares to "fly with the crows, get shot with the crows." One who knows that aggressive propagators or criminal offenders or terrorists are hiding under his name and does not take active measures to get rid of these, cooperating with those who are after these retarded breeds, is as suspicious and guilty as those he indirectly protects.

Such things like with the two burka-wearing girls happen on a regular basis in Germany now - fundamentalists who want to enforce their entrance into public service, especially eduaction and schools, gaining influental püositions were they can heolp the spreading and implementing of islamic culture and laws (!) in the state, and in the society. It is a silent invasion by a hostile culture aiming at conquering ours and deleting it, a soundless war going on. It is about wearing-out resistance of public opinion agai8nst Islam. It'S abolut raising misleading impressions on how harmless and peaceloving and tolerant Islam is. It's the systematical testing of how far they can go (usually each time a little bit farther). Usually it can be proven that the financial support fto bring such cases to the courts is coming fromIslmic organisation, in this time the very subversive King-Fahd-Academy in Germany which is under close observation of the Verfassungsschutz (they want to close it down, but politicians do not listen to their experts...). at least one of the two families has close connections to this hostile institution that is enemy to our constitution (it should be closed and destroyed, imo).

you agree on the superiority of the Western heritage, but that perceived superiority makes you lull and dull - you think you are so superior that you can tame Islam. I tell you, you can't. The Western culture is hollowing out itself from within (materialism, oligarchy-building, oil-dependence, heavy lobbying). This is what makes us not strong enough to tame Islam, but what makes us more and more vulnerable to Islam. In Europe Islam has grown in influence and power and acceptance since decades, there can be no serious doubt about it. It is irresponsible to claim that in Europe Islam is weakening and desperate, as you put it. It has secured the initiave as a matter of fact, and more and more authorities of Europe are giving ground to them.

Look at Turkey. People considered Fundamental Islam to be gone there. now it is back again, stronger than before since WWII. fundamntal Islam ids forming it'S government. No way I would conclude that Attaturk was successful. He was too tame. Think of that - Attaturk - too tame...?

You are a very dangerous man due to your naivity, Abraham, and you even do not realize it and declare it a cultural or political virtue. That is if someone has fought against a pneumonia, and a flu, and a sopring headache, and concludes by that that his immune system is strong enough to cope with Ebola. But our constitutional orders are almost defenseless against the Islamic combination of religion and politics.

there is only one Islam - that has always been, since 14 centuries, the fighting, expanding, aggressive, non-coexisting and intolerant Islam. That's what it is, and nothing else. It has brought mankind more violence and war and military conquest than any ideology, and empire, and religion, any culture. It's the mindset of a predatory, murderish, greedy beduin with an inflationary ego. Keep that in mind, and also that you undertake a timewarp of over thousand years each time you deal with it.

You are to well-meaning, Abraham. and this is what makes you a threat to your own people: you think reason will sort this thing out, maybe becasue you are a lawyer and depend on words and rules being followed.

But what role played reason in the medieval...??? This is a cultural war going on, nothing else. And we are loosing, thanks to active help of well-meaning Westerners like you. We do need people here that are willing to take a risk in making a clear stand, that draw a clear line in the sand and tell Islam: "Until here - and not one da,n inch beyond, else I flatten you withoiut further warning." That is proven to be the only thing that Islam ever has understood throughout it's history, and brought it's expansion to a halt: overwhelming opposing power and superiority, and rejection of compromise.

[Iceman]

ummm....I love them damn dirty apes....lmao.... :rotfl: