[REL] patSH3r - Reborn

[makman94]

Originally Posted by Niedowidek

Even with perfect crew rotation crewmen get tired faster when moving on surface in bad weather. Several times I had a problem that one watch was too tired to keep going and the previous watch wasn't rested yet. Then I had to dive just to let people rest. And this means using your batteries and/or slowing you down which has impact on time of arrival to patrol zone, available battery charge etc.

Also if you have contact with enemy after long period of bad weather and your crew is more tired, i.e. less effective, it may seriously affect result of engagement.

I would like to preserve this uncertainty whether my crew will perform well or not so well (because of tiredness). Having perfect crew, with maximum abilities to hear contacts with hydrophone, reloading torpedoes all the time and such is not so fun for me. But manual crew rotation is not much fun either.

i see what you mean Niedowidek and i like it

is there a mod you use and have this behaviour (i would like to try it) or it is your wish for such a mod ?

Originally Posted by padi

First: Everything is better than the SH3-System!
And the SH4-System is perfect!

i didn't say the opposite padi
i was asking something else

[Hitman]

I have totally discard this feature (i guess you all know the ''No Fatigue'' mod) and i can't see what will be the difference (for the player) if the game is running a ,lets say perfect crew rotation system or the ''No Fatigue'' mod. In both cases , the player has not to bother himself with the crew 'actions'.

Am i missing something here ? may by ''good crew rotation'' system , people mean that player will have to make some specific actions himself?

Crew fatigue is an element of the game like engine damage, you can't run flank speed all the time because you blow the engines, and you can't run around in battlestations or in conditions that destroy your crew's stamina for a long time. This all introduces an important strategy element, you will f.e. not go after a ship that you can only slowly reach at flank speed, and you will maybe not be able to engage, or be more cautious if your crew is stressed after a big pursuit or a storm, or by two long months of patrol.

More than a crew rotation I think that what is needed is a good fatigue system combined with a battlestations mode (That's where Patsh3er would enter the equation).

To sum up, my ideal model of fatigue would be as follows:

1) You always generate a minimum of fatigue that progresses till your crew is exhausted after some time in patrol (This reflects the general stress of living in the uboat and being out at sea for some time).
2) There is a minimum of efficiency, i.e. an exhausted crew will anyway always be able to do their duties, but they will slow down considerably when totally.
3) At battlestations (quick icons for surface/submerged/aircraft attack) and during storms when surfaced there is a bigger and quicker increase in fatigue. The difference is that your crew can recover from this increased fatigue to the point where it should be according to the fatigue generated by the general patrol duration. They will slowly recover once the battlestations situation is finished and they can resume the normal watches (After one cycle of watches everyone has slept some hours and is recovered from the extra fatigue).

An example (Arbitrary numbers, the % are just examples)

-You are already a month at sea, and your crew's efficiency has dropped to 75% under the normal watch rotation (No battle engagements or specially long storms)
-You find a convoy, call battlestations and engage during 72 intense hours. The stress makes your crew lose efficiency to a 50%, which is the minimum.
-You disengage or lose the convoy, and resume normal navigation and crew shifts --> In 8 hours more the combat stress has dissapeared and the crew is now at 72% efficiency (It still has lost a 3% for the additional days at sea)
-After two months at sea, your crew's efficiency has dropped to 50%. It won't go any lower, but you should head back home. If you engage a ship or convoy during your return trip your crew ill not lose any more efficiency, but since they engage at a 50%, you have less chances of surviving.

I hope the example can be understood well

[Leitender]

Hi all,

I´ve been using the crew management intensively for a long time, because it adds another point to the commander for which he had to pay attention. 2 settings I prefere: First I use the GWX/8hour fatigue model delivered with SH3 Commander, which leads to similar "problems" Niedowidek describes above. The second point is to switch on "crew efficiency" for every crew sensor in the "sensors.cfg" file. With this function enabled, imho a tired watch will spot a target later then a relaxed one, a hydrophone contact will be reported later and so on. This forces me to exchange the watch continously.

Btw, typically the bridge watch had a 4 hour turn, the machine watch a 6 hour turn and the radio operators rotated every 4 hour during day and every 6 hour during night. I exchange the crew according to this schedule, one by one if necessary, what takes a long time of course and sometimes gets boring in a certain way, but because I always plot my course , mark sundown, sunrise and depth, log the wheather and check the technical systems, i therefore get a good feeling about my current sea-worthyness and the overall circumstances.

Next: Although I see the point of that general "fatigue" after a long patrol, NYGM doesn´t simulate the recurrent watch by watch fatigue. Because imho the latter has the more important influence on the commander´s decisions, I prefere the GWX model. I´m not sure if a crew that e.g. operated successfully during a several week patrol should be able to do its duty for only "75%" or "50%", only because they are on a long trip. Generally that seems to me a little bit overestimated.

Maybe that fatigue isn´t a question of physival but of mental exhaust, what could be simulated by that odd "motivation" factor instead? Does this motivation factor has an influence on the game at all? I´ve never noticed that.

Finally, thanks to Fader_Berg for his additional options. Especially the exchange of non-machine petty officers between the engine rooms is a really fine improvement!

[makman94]

ok , i understand your points guys.
Whatever 'crew system' that doesn't demand from the user to manually moving around the crew members is fine for me.

There are other areas of the game that will make (if improved) the gameplay way more challenging and interesting than a good 'crew rotation'.Spending time for creating complex 'crew rotations' seems,to me, a waste of time at this moment

just my two cents

[LGN1]

Originally Posted by Leitender

Hi all,

..., but because I always plot my course , mark sundown, sunrise and depth, log the wheather and check the technical systems, i therefore get a good feeling about my current sea-worthyness and the overall circumstances.

...

Maybe that fatigue isn´t a question of physival but of mental exhaust, what could be simulated by that odd "motivation" factor instead? Does this motivation factor has an influence on the game at all? I´ve never noticed that.

Hi Leitender,

just for curiosity: how do you plot your course, mark sundown, depth,...? And what technical systems do you check? It sounds very interesting!

Concerning the motivation factor: See this old post for an explanation what it does:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...3&postcount=26

Regards, LGN1

[Leitender]

Hi LGN1,

that´s quite simple: I use the given tools of the F5 map. After having drawn the course, I retrace the track by using the ruler for a persistent plot. At sundown / sunrise, I draw a horizontal line with appropriate length to the given time (e.g. when sunrise is at 06.15 i draw a horizontal line with 6.1km length) at the current position. So, when reading the map, I can predict the next sunrise and I can measure the distance having moved between two sunrises (a kind of daily "etmal"). The measuring time is when the redlight turns on or off.

Every few hours I also use the Atlas echolot to measure the depth (at least near the coast). I mark the depth in the map by using the "compass" and draw a circle with a radius appropriate to the depth. With this markings, I can see whether there´s a significant descent or an increase of depth without trusting the colour of the map too much.

Another thing is, if I use the same way for retour, I already know the dephts quite exactly.

Concerning the technical checks: I use my own improved and optimized gauges with switched-on control lights (so called Bordinstrumente_Patch) with which I can precisely read the correct values of the most important instruments. E.g., at the beginning of each patrol, I make a new speed table with knots and rpms for every machine status, thus I can immediatly see on the instruments if something is getting wrong. I also pay attention on the control lamps, because at 100% realism settings, I cannot look outside the boat and control if both screws are turning or not and if recharching the batteries is the reason for slower movement. Same with the compressed air and oxygen (really vital especially if you use h.sie´s resp. Stiebler´s oxygen mod).

What I also sometimes do is to check the diesel consumption by measuring distance and time and I compare the results with the report of my helmsman to predict my remaining operational area and to keep in mind the needs of getting back to my base. Btw, the the sea state has a huge influence on diesel consumption.

There are lots of helpful information giving by the game to use it in an operational or tactical way, although it sounds not that exiting. But surely the kaleuns then did that too.

Sorry for getting off topic

Best regards

[utops]

Hi,

Im new to this patch and what i saw so far it working for most part,but:

no_news_tc1                on

Do not.
Im running GWX with Conus wide screen mod and Fire damage by DarkWraith.
Any tips how to resolve this will be painted gold. :P

BTW. Thx for keeping Sh3 expierence alive.

[Fader_Berg]

Originally Posted by utops

Hi,

Im new to this patch and what i saw so far it working for most part,but:

no_news_tc1                on

Do not.
Im running GWX with Conus wide screen mod and Fire damage by DarkWraith.
Any tips how to resolve this will be painted gold. :P

BTW. Thx for keeping Sh3 expierence alive.

Hmmm... Are you sure it's news you're talking about and not BDU messages?

[ferg]

Originally Posted by Leitender

The second point is to switch on "crew efficiency" for every crew sensor in the "sensors.cfg" file. With this function enabled, imho a tired watch will spot a target later then a relaxed one, a hydrophone contact will be reported later and so on. This forces me to exchange the watch continously.

Wait. Crew sensors aren't influenced by efficiency? So what is the point of "Bridge" efficiency then?