Europe's migrant problem

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That French guy I referred to, put it something like this: patriotism is love for thy people and culture, country. Nationalism is hating the others. I think history shows him to be right. Where ever nationalism rose its head, hate against the "other" had much, so very much to do with it.

I can arrange myself with people feeling honestly patriotic. I may not tick like they do, but I still can understand their feeling, and tolerate them, we are not separated by insurmountable differences. But with nationalists I run a zero tolerance policy, Nazi or not, it just is a cosmetic difference. I just cant stand nationalism.

Good point though.
Here we always said one has to be a nationalist in moderation. Too prevent too much outside influence, keep a healthy distrust of outsiders (Countries don't have friends, they have interests ) Depends on the personal view in the end.
But then again, nationalism destroyed Germany in 1945 and tore Yugoslavia apart in the 90's.

[Skybird]

Just in:

two Maroccan young men who had stolen a cellphone from a German young man on January 3rd and who are suspected to have participated in the excesses on New Year'S Eve, have been sentenced by a court. 1 week arrest.

You read that right. ONE. WEEK.

The one of the two hasd entered Germany just in Decembre, and has previously been caught by the police for shoplifting, and got a suspended sentence. The other man stayed in germany since longer and already has a long police record. This makes both to repeated offenders.

ONE. WEEK.

But this is nothing new. It is how carricatures of courts in germany tick.

Now recall what I said yesterday: that we can only kick out criminal asylum seekers if they have been sentenced to three years in prison, and that newcomers, whose claim for seeking asylum still must be decided on, are only kickable when they commited a crime for which they serve at least one year in prison.

You do not gte 3 years terms easily in Germany.

The one of the men is not even two months in Germany, and already is a repeated offender. The other is here since last year, some months it seems, and already has a long list of offences.

ONE. WEEK.

Both men already are released, and walked away free, since the time they already spend in jail got counted. I'm certain they have a good laugh and get celebrated by their buddies.

That bitch of a clueless judge gets quoted with the well-meaning advise: "Don'T let this happen again, if you please".

Policemen in Cologne say they are shocked, and that they could not believe it. Quote: "We feel like being beaten in the face."

This surely will push the city police's motivation that already is at rock bottom, to new record lows.


Everybody feel free to shed loads of scorn and mockery on Germany. It deserves it. Myself, I am done with Germany since years already. I look at it, and all I feel is merciless contempt. With every year, I become more icy, and my look on it more unmoved.

[mapuc]

Don't know if it has been mentioned before in this thread

It looks like those who did this was refugees and the head of the police in cologne had to resign due to "false story"

OK. there are thousands of refugees in Germany and how many percentage of these has done this ?(if some one should say-every refugees is like that)

Got this from an article in bild.de

Markus

[Rockstar]

Its always disappointing to hear of such things happening. But there's no time like the present to start hiring new police officers and strengthen patrols to lay down the law. IMO It must be done and done soon otherwise you might have problems like those friendly peace loving neighborhoods that have developed around Paris.

We have similar restrictions/laws in place. The type of offense which can deny entry to an asylum seeker must carry a sentence of one year or more in prison.

[mapuc]

Regarding Skybirds post

Some month ago a Danish police men said on Danish TV why they really don't care to solve crime

Why should we !? We get the person or persons who did this and collect enough material to get the person or persons convicted and what happen the judges set them free.

Markus

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Regarding Skybirds post

Some month ago a Danish police men said on Danish TV why they really don't care to solve crime

Why should we !? We get the person or persons who did this and collect enough material to get the person or persons convicted and what happen the judges set them free.

Markus

Don't know about police's motivation here but as citizen my trust to our judiciary system is falling quite rapidly. Lastest hit was rape case where my friend was victim. Perpetrator got six month probation, fines and should compensation to victim. Those financial consequences are much more serious punishment than probation or would be if that Iraqi refugee had any money. In practice State will pay compensations and forget fines.

[mapuc]

This is a part of an article in a Swedish news paper.

Based on the violent events in Cologne, the Slovak Prime Minister, Robert Fico, decided to completely ban Muslim immigration to Slovakia.

This Swedish newspaper does not belong to the mainstream newspaper.

It could be true even though

Need confirmation for other news paper.

Markus

Just found this, what do you guys think of that?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb0_1447249820

I don't know, but after seeing these pictures (that I have never seen in German TV, mh, I wonder why!) I don't buy the "It's all just fear-mongering" argument anymore.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Just found this, what do you guys think of that?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb0_1447249820

I don't know, but after seeing these pictures (that I have never seen in German TV, mh, I wonder why!) I don't buy the "It's all just fear-mongering" argument anymore.

While I don't buy it anymore either I stopped reading this stuff when I came to this:

The Left, mainly orchestrated by Zionist interests, is destroying our countries from the inside.

And while I do believe that "die Linke" and "Bündnis 90 die Grünen" are trying with all might to destroy our national identity I still fail to see the Jewish conspiracy behind it.
Ah well, I hope our politicians will finally get their heads out of their rear ends as the mood of the German people seems to be changing dramatically and not in favor for Merkel's "get everyone into Germany" policy. A lot of people also finally seem to realize that the cultures from Islamic countries are not compatible with our own and that all the nice words and self deception / censoring of the past decades have been nothing but a drug induced dream with no base in reality. If things continue as they are (and I've no doubt they will as Merkel doesn't have the will / guts to change now as it would show her complete misjudgment of the situation) then we are just one bad election day away from getting into the same mess as Poland by voting in the morons of the AFD.
I don't know what's worse, to continue as we do or have the AFD in charge. In any case it doesn't look good either way.

[Rockstar]

Egads. Ive been involved in migrant interdiction operations for 10 years. Ive come across people from all over the world. But Ive never seen anything as out of control as what was shown on that video.

You all had better reign it in quick.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

And he's done: http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/uebergriffe-117.html

About bloody time.
Our country has completely surrendered it's authority on that night and that must never happen again. What does the police have pepper spray, batons and guns for? Oh, I forgot that the left will start crying "police state" if those were to be used...well, now our own people are crying but I guess we'll just have to accept that, tight? Brave new world.

As someone who has been on the receiving end of police actions - sometimes undeserved, sometimes not, let me tell you this:
I would have had absolutely no problem if the police would have taken violent measures to solve the situation in Cologne. Yeah, there might have been innocents hurt in the process, but i would have loved to be kissed by a baton if it would have stopped a sole woman from being harrassed or raped. I guess only the numbest of the numb would have cried: 'police violence' afterwards.

Originally Posted by Schroeder

The green party already got a new slogan out for this year yesterday:


This can be translated into something like: "For a Europe without isolation."
Is this a case of denial?

I saw the picture and the first thought i had was: detachment. If there has ever been a picture to describe this noun, it's this one.

Yes, I know one shouldn't judge people by their looks, but who cares. This picture symbolizes a huge part of the problem in Germany when discussing the whole migration topic here. I'm sure you agree with me, that calling the debate culture about refugees in Germany 'toxic' is an understatement. Seems like binary thinking is king, nuances and pragmatism gets shot instantly.

It might be part of my upbringing in the lower class, but I see a bunch of middle class folks standing around, uttering statements which exactly say nothing. "Feel-good-policy", more for themselves than for the people they claim to help.

I even have some empathy for them. In my line of work I am surrounded by brilliant people from all over the world. Educated, speaking many languages and multicultural in the best meaning of the word.
However I know how the reality looks: the middle class is not the one who experience all the negative results of politics with heart but without mind.

The datatchment from reality was made clear by the vice chancellor, with his infamous "scum" sentence, putting everyone who has the slightest doubts about the policy, into the same bucket as some bonehead idiots who want to burn people for their color of skin.

It's the lower-class who will struggle in a "social state" which gets chopped down by the hour and will competing for the finite resources of jobs, homes, etc.

However it's also the lower-class scum which did more for integration than any state policy ever did. The parents of Ali and Hans might never talk or trust each other, but the kids play together on the playground and are together in school. So while the "scum" might also have the biggest objections to the current policies, it's the "scum" who lived with all the people together since years, in good and in bad. They were the first who saw an immigrant as a person, neither bogeyman nor a helpless rabbit.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I want to put some perspective into it. Just had an 2 hour debate over the German policiy, where my argument of finite resources was shot down by the words "that's the same Lebensraum argument we heard before"
My reply was only: "Congratulations, you just put every economist or a country like Sweden into the same category than the Nazis."

I'm curious how you see that.

Originally Posted by Betonov

Yep.
And the other extreme to the spectrum, the ''roll on your back'' and ''let's let everyone in'' left.
But those two sides are interesting to the media.
No one wants to report on those of us on the left that think that a immigration limit should be in place or those on the right that believe that controlled immigration is beneficial to the country. We just don't sell the news anymore.

I hear you, mate, I made the same observations. The English language has a nice term for the folks you describe: regressive Left

[Schroeder]

@Penguin
I think you are spot on. The politicians never had to see the negative aspects of their actions. Maybe they are even completely unaware of them like the kings of centuries past who had no idea that their people were starving...
The lack of information might be the foundation for the completely irrational policy we see today. Another problem is that some parties have preached multiculturalism for decades and that the West is the root of all evil and they can't just turn around and admit that they have lived their lives in a dogma which can't change like religions can't change without losing their power as it means to admit having been wrong. So they have to keep going in that direction even if it means suicide in the long run. Since Merkel has created her own dogma a couple of months ago and seems unwilling to correct it things can go down south pretty fast as the people are fed up by now and the New Year's Eve crimes were just what pushed things over the edge. A lot of people want answers to the crisis and more importantly: consequences. Yet the whitewashing has already began again and I highly doubt that anything important will change and that is what feeds the Right wing extremists. So either Merkel and the other morons finally get their act together (For once I wish they would listen to Seehofer who I usually can't stand) or things will get really ugly at the next election (let alone in the decades to come when we'll have to deal with the fallout of today's idiocy).

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

bild.de

Better don't care for Bild. Its crap. Daily Mirror and The Sun turned into one paper.

[Skybird]

Penguin,

read Roland Baader's "Totgedacht. Warum Intellektuelle unsere Welt zerstören." LINK You may or may not agree or disagree with liberalism and its economy and money theory, but in this book Baader goes more beyond that than in most of his other books. The historical link to explain the bias of the German "feuilleton", is to the socalled 68er generation, and the overtaking of all education and opinion-forming offices by their (very left-leaning) thinking and ideology: schools, universities, and by that: media, politics, last but not least "Geisteswissenschaften" and social and paedagogic "sciences", school teachers. Important parts of the state monopoly in socially relevant areas has been abused to spread this kind of thinking, especially schools and universities, wherew the poltical interference is massive and cannot be missed anymore, also the state TV and the almost gleichgeschalteten major newspapers. The original 68er are out of the job world already - but they had been given the opportunity to breed and implement their seeds deep into the education of future generations, since 40 years now. Generation 2 and 3 of their intellectual offsprings now have taken over from them. And that spells desaster.

We pay the price for that today. Our population voluntarily moves again according to the patterns and manipulative operations that once the Eastgerman StaSi and the Soviet KGB have tried - to control the Westgerman peace movement, the SPD, and to influence the media and the public opinion forming, to weaken support for NATO and the US: an effort to influence and destabilise the political situation in Westgermany. They would rub their eyes if they would still be there and see what is happening. It'sheir wet dream coming true.

What do you think why do politics now systemtically reduce and even delete history courses from schools? A population not knowing history, cannot put political decisions of the present into historical relation, cannot compare, cannot assess competently the consequences. A population of poltical idiots gets formed that way, and that is ploltically wanted, so to not have critical thinking interfering with politicians' feudal governing. If there is one word that describes perfectly what is happening in Germany currently, than this word is "infantilization". We are all being turned into teletubbies - teletubbies who have a right to vote politicians into their desired offices, of course. "Deutschland, Land der Dichter und Denker", das war einmal, und ist schon lange vorbei! Infantility trumps all! Merkelianism! Socialism! Ich fühl mich gut, ich fühl mich toll, ich fühl mich einfach wundervoll! Collective solidarity with everything as most superior citizen's duty, and you better don't disagree with the plebs, else...!! Consense-tyranny!

Europe falls, and we today must live to witness it. I nowadays watch it happening in slow motion with unmoved eyes, confused that such amounts of stupdity are still possible after the centuries of rise and knowledge- gathering. I cannot change it, and my energy to try, was and would be all wasted, I now understand. Every action has reaction, karma is consequence, the essence of justice is "deserve". Compassion I feel none anymore - its not needed, but would even be unfair, because undeserved.

Originally Posted by Schroeder

@Penguin
I think you are spot on.

Definitely!