Terrorist attack in Paris, France

[eddie]

My prayers go out for the families of the innocent Russians killed in the tragic bombing of their aircraft.

[BossMark]

My prayers to all those involved.
Latest from the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34814203

[Hitman]

I hope this wakes up our governments and they finally understand that we must bring war to those bastards instead of waiting here for them to bring it to us. The ISIS must be annihilated in the ME, not one by one here after they kill hundreds of us

[raymond6751]

Originally Posted by Hitman

I hope this wakes up our governments and they finally understand that we must bring war to those bastards instead of waiting here for them to bring it to us. The ISIS must be annihilated in the ME, not one by one here after they kill hundreds of us

Darn right! But we should also be going after those who support, supply, and buy ISIS oil. They are getting ammo from somewhere. Put a stop to that.
What they always say is "find the money".

Back in 2001 it was 'if you are not with us, then you are against us', so we should follow the trail of incoming support and outgoing oil.

[Betonov]

Police firefight (not graphic)

[CaptainRamius]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Police firefight (not graphic)

Wow, that's impressive. I'm suprised someone stuck around to videotape that. Or was it a news reporter?

[CaptainRamius]

It's pretty inevitable. NATO will do something.

[CaptainRamius]

My god. My profile pic looks horrible. Help!

[Eichhörnchen]

Originally Posted by eddie

My prayers go out for the families of the innocent Russians killed in the tragic bombing of their aircraft.

Oddly, my (the) very last post in the music thread expressed this very sentiment right before the gigantic Spam Bomb robbed us of it last week: "The Russian people, a beautiful people so in love with their country, our hearts go out to you since that awful aerial tragedy".

Now our hearts go out again all too soon, to our dear friends in France.

[Betonov]

Stay strong France, you showed more than enough times you're able to survive.

[STEED]

No confirmed news here who carried it out, the only bit of news was the attack was carried out in the name of Syria.

I see just in....

The near-simultaneous attacks in Paris that killed at least 127 people and wounded more than 180 were an "act of war" carried out by Islamic State, says France's President Francois Hollande.
He said the attacks, carried out by eight gunmen and suicide bombers, were "organised and planned from outside".
Busy bars and restaurants, a music concert and a high-profile football match were all targeted.
Mr Hollande has declared three days of national mourning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34820016

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

My condolences to all victims.

[Kaptlt.Endrass]

Alright, I'm not here to vent. I did that enough. Rather, I'm here to analyze and bring to light what I think is going on with ISIS and these latest events in Paris.

First off, to all affected in those attacks, directly or not: God be with you, and if you lost a loved one, my condolences.

Now, here we go...(Jim, Steve, and all other moderators, you won't like me for the duration of this analysis)

First off, we need to look at the attacks as what they were: a mindless attack on the citizens of Paris, a scene of ass murder, and quite possibly an attempt to assassinate the premier of France. But, that said, what I think the REAL objective is...

So, open to everyone: now that ISIS has committed this act, what do you think the outlook on any Muslim in the EU will be? Friendly? Sympathetic?

I think not. Rather, as the US populous was post-9/11, you will be, quite frankly, pissed, enraged, etc... I will not be surprised when Muslims start being prosecuted, cut off, and/or worse. THIS IS WHAT ISIS WANTS!!!!!

If your average, peaceful Islamic person, who holds absolutely no malice towards the US or EU, is suddenly coming under fire because some young, hyped-up, brainwashed idiots that happen to have guns decide that shooting up your local pub is a great idea, well, to be honest, that leads to a bit of sourness.

I mean, it isn't his fault is it? He, again, is a peaceful Islamic follower trying to make a living in his niche in society. But sourness can breed anger. Anger breeds hatred. And suddenly, JACKPOT! ISIS now has a new host of people it can send to do its bidding. Meanwhile, us Americans and Europeans are going to continue prosecuting these people, unaware that we are simply adding fuel to the fire.

And for those that have had the thought of launching a concerted nuclear attack on ISIS: admittedly, I've thought the same. But where? Against who? This is the problem we face when going up against insurgents: they blend in, have no obvious leader (unless they reveal themselves), and as such we cannot hit them accurately. That said, the loss of life therein may (and call me a cruel person for it) be acceptable for what may come in the long run. A nuclear strike would absolutely annihilate any resistance ISIS has and show any survivors that the nations of the world will not put up with their ****. And such a strike would definitely affect the fighting capability of ISIS. The loss of civilian life would likely reach into the hundreds of thousands, and honestly, that is an issue for me. But no war can be won without civilian losses. And civilian losses are something we understand with nuclear weaponry, as President Truman knew when he gave the go-ahead for the release of the two bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. But for now, no on nuclear solutions.

What the armies of the world need to do is mobilize against the threat, not just in the air. What good does dropping ten thousand kilograms of bombs do when there is no one to move up and secure the position afterwards? Obama, get your head out of your ass! (I've said that way too much over the past seven years) We need boots on the ground. Sure, those 50 Spec Ops are a start, but it doesn't do much good otherwise. We need to take the fight to ISIS, not have them bring it to us.

So much for not venting. But I believe I made the basis of my point clear. And to all those who have very hateful feelings towards the Islamic community: remember who the real enemy is. Not Ameer Al-Abbas, second-generation American/Englishman/Frenchman, who busts his back every day to make an honest living and is proud to be a citizen of your country. Its the ones who committed this atrocity, the extremists. You may not be able to tell who they are, but the more you prosecute, the more you help ISIS grow.

Once more, may whatever deity you pray to be with you, safe travels, and stay strong.

[Oberon]

Think you're pretty spot on there Endrass. Daesh wants us to distrust all Muslims, and wants all Muslims to feel rejected and hated by us, so that it will be easier to persuade them to take up arms against us.

It is little wonder that many of the people who go to Syria are of an age between 16-25, an age where many of us are unsure about ourselves as our body goes through changes which can be baffling and frightening.
It can be easy for someone of that age to slip into drink or drugs or gang membership, or in this new world, extremism.

That being said, it is a very difficult situation for the west, and in particular our security services. To try and prevent these attacks without ostracising the Islamic community by putting them under intense observation. I recall reading an article about the 'Arhaus Model', now putting aside for a moment the question of the effectiveness of the model, one has to look at what radicalised the gentleman interviewed by the BBC in the first place, and I quote:

So the family went to Mecca and Ahmed remembered returning to Denmark with a sense of relief.
"When we came back I was happy and I was a new person with a religious identity. I saw the world differently. I saw that it was important for a person to have a connection with his god, I saw that there was an afterlife."
But Ahmed's new faith got him into trouble at school. He abandoned jeans and T-shirts and took to wearing traditional Islamic dress. He became defensive and argumentative when the subject of religion came up. He acknowledges today that he could have handled things better, but at the time, he said, he responded aggressively because he felt he had a duty to defend his religion when he was being baited by his Danish classmates.

...

He was out one evening when his father rang. "Where are you?" he demanded. "What have you done?" His father said the police had just knocked on the door and were looking for him.
"When I got home, he was shocked and angry. He told me that I had to go straight to the police station the following morning, and ask them what they wanted."
So Ahmed went to see the police and was amazed to discover that he'd been turned in by the principal of the school.

"The reason you are here," he was told, "is that your classmates are afraid, they think you are extremist and that you are capable of dangerous things. They think you have been radicalised in Saudi Arabia."
Ahmed grins as he remembers all this. But it wasn't funny at the time - he had a vision of being put on the next flight to Guantanamo. "I was shocked," he says "and I had no words to defend myself."
The police then told him they would need to search his home and that they would need the password to his email account and any other social media that he used.
"I gave them everything and they searched my house and it was very humiliating to watch. When they left I was shocked and I was angry," he says.

It got worse. All this had happened during the last week of school, and he had missed the end of year exams. The school, he told me, refused to allow him to sit them late.
"That gave me a punch in the face, and gave me the feeling this society is total racist," he says. "They call me a terrorist? I will give them a terrorist if they want that."

So, one kid gets religion, gets baited by other kids at school, tries to defend his religion and then gets labelled as a potential extremist and the police get involved. At this point he has become an outcast, no-one at school will want to know him, no-one in his street will want to have anything to do with him, he will be considered dangerous, even if the police give him the all clear.
Enter, stage left, videos from a radical Imam:

Ahmed then told everything to his friends at the mosque. They were sympathetic, he says, and invited him home. There were long discussions about the hypocrisy of the West in its dealings with Muslims and Muslim countries. They watched a lot of jihadi videos online. Ahmed remembers in particular those that featured Anwar al-Awlaki, the radical American cleric of Yemeni descent, who was killed in a drone strike in 2011.
"He would say things like, 'We are at war with the West, the West will kill all the Muslims around the world if we don't stand up to them,' and I was like, OK, and my friends were saying, 'Yeah, he's totally right.'"
Finally someone drew Ahmed aside and suggested that if he wanted to learn more about Islam and be respected as a Muslim, he should go to Pakistan. "He told me about a school there, where they have good teachers and where they teach Islam in the best way."

A young mind, isolated by those around him will naturally seek those of a similar disposition, and it's very easy to insert sentiment in there which will benefit extremists and harvest young mislead minds for the cause.

From then on, unless stopped, the person will go away from the country and off to somewhere where he or she can be properly indoctrinated, having taken the bait on the hook, and from there on they are a soldier in the army of Daesh, Al'Qaeda or whatever.
Sometimes it helps that Daesh will provide propaganda that makes it seem like a 'Boys own' adventure to go and fight in the Syrian civil war, I mean, hey Muslim friends, you get to drive tanks, shoot guns, and no-one to tell you to go to bed before nine or to do your homework. You get the chance to become a hero, I mean who hasn't day-dreamt about being the hero in their own action film? Especially at the tender age of 20, or even younger. You get the chance to be respected, to be adulated, and surely that's better than working a 9-5 shift at the local McDonalds where some people look warily at you, or the kids throw fries at you and call you terrorist filth?

So, yes, it's a real Catch-22 situation, we've got to clamp down and eliminate radicals, in particular the sources, the indoctrinators and recruiters, but in a way that doesn't end up creating more radicals in the process.