Aircraft evasion

[CDM]

The Pacific is a much bigger ocean, Japanese radar was never that good, their airborne ASW was never that good and with fuel and airplane shortages got worse instead of better as the war went on. The "realism" of the constant harassment by aircraft in SH4 is on the wrong side and in the wrong theater.[/QUOTE]

Is there anyway to reprogram the game to correct this?

[Pigboatcook]

Originally Posted by CDM

The Pacific is a much bigger ocean, Japanese radar was never that good, their airborne ASW was never that good and with fuel and airplane shortages got worse instead of better as the war went on. The "realism" of the constant harassment by aircraft in SH4 is on the wrong side and in the wrong theater.

Japanese aircraft production was 75,000+. Losses at the end of the war were approximately 43,000. Sure, it doesn't scratch the benchmark of the U.S.'s 300k but 75,000 is still one heck of a lot of wings.

Here are the numbers by year:
39 4.4k
40 7.8k
41 5.0k
42 9.0k
43 16.0k
44 28.0k
45 8.0k

[Crannogman]

Originally Posted by Pigboatcook

Japanese aircraft production was 75,000+. Losses at the end of the war were approximately 43,000. Sure, it doesn't scratch the benchmark of the U.S.'s 300k but 75,000 is still one heck of a lot of wings.

Here are the numbers by year:
39 4.4k
40 7.8k
41 5.0k
42 9.0k
43 16.0k
44 28.0k
45 8.0k

Too bad their fuel and aircrew production couldn't keep pace. Or, rather, too good...

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by CDM

The Pacific is a much bigger ocean, Japanese radar was never that good, their airborne ASW was never that good and with fuel and airplane shortages got worse instead of better as the war went on. The "realism" of the constant harassment by aircraft in SH4 is on the wrong side and in the wrong theater.

I heartily agree. Though aircraft allotted by the Japanese to the role of ASW and maritime protection multiplied until 1945, the supply never met the need. As the war continued into its final year, air cover became truly scarce, sometimes disturbingly so. One Japanese officer bitterly commented that "when we were near a base where we could request air cover, the only planes that showed up were American." The shortage of planes often precluded the possibility of antisubmarine sweeps in areas of beyond the immediate convoy routes. As a result it became common practice to send unarmed training flights over open water in the hopes that their presence might discourage any submarines that happened to be in the area.

In addition, with aircraft (as with surface vessels) availability more than suitability was the more influential benchmark for assignment to anti-submarine work. The Japanese had nothing comparable to the B-24 which could carry 24 depth charges on patrols reaching over 1,000 miles from shore. True, the Japanese navy did have the excellent Kawanishi flying boats and some float planes quite appropriate for maritime protection duty, but their production run numbers were few and many lacked the proper equipment.

The radar installed on these planes, when they were lucky enough to be so equipped was often not reliable. Ten miles was the maximum distance at which airborne Japanese radar could pick up a surfaced US sub. During daylight hours most pilots preferred their own eyesight, as it had greater range.

I've always been at something of a loss for mods that try to make Japanese aerial ASW the equivalent of Coastal Command in the Atlantic. (and the ridiculous number of Japanese aircraft aloft in the stock version of the game was out of whack, too.) I do suppose it is the make the game more tense and exciting, but it can't help but be at odds with history.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by CDM

Is there anyway to reprogram the game to correct this?

Yes, use mods.



I recommend these:

RFB_2.0 .................................(Real Fleet Boat)
RFB_2.0_Patch_23April2010
RSRDC_RFB_V575 ..........(Run Silent Run Deep Campaign)
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
Improved Ship Physics 2.15 .......................(with Patch)


This provides many improvements with only five mods. RFB (Real Fleet Boat) aims to achieve the most realistic gameplay and changes many elements. RSRDC (Run Silent Run Deep Campaign) changes shipping traffic and missions to historical volume/pattern. Stock has excessive traffic and isn't well configured.

ISP makes the diving, turning, acceleration, battery performance, and sea-keeping of your boat more realistic.

Note that you must have v1.5 of Silent Hunter 4 to run these mods (as most others).

Also, when you install and enable these mods (using JSGME), you should start a new career, and avoid experimenting with a lot of mods within this career. Playing 3 card Monty with mods will likely make for problems.

[YonMaruIchi]

Eh, I'm not sure I agree with the less than gratifying bit. Having total dominance over enemy homewaters like you own the place, whether or not it is realistic due to certain Japanese limitations in certain years of the war, is rather unsatisfying, actually. How challenging is it to find a slow moving convoy moving away from you in the early hours of the morning, only to be able to use the entire day getting ahead of it without worries from god forbid any planes trying to protect their home convoys and attack it that same night? Or receiving multiple reports of task forces moving perpendicular to your position and being able to rendezvous with them just as the sun sets below the horizon perfectly on your own terms? I suppose if you can play this game for long without it being challenging then that kind of gameplay is for you. Not being able to drive around freely all day long unless you accept the risks is a major part of gameplay however IMO.

If planes didn't exist by WWII I'm not even sure we'd be playing Silent Hunter 4, we'd probably all be playing Convoy Hunter 4 or something and driving small torpedo boats and destroyers as they were faster and carried more firepower than subs and wouldn't be in danger of anything. I'm pretty sure if you turned off all planes in the game you could go through the whole career and join all the tonnage clubs without ever diving once. You don't even need to dive when attacking convoys if you have the ability to always attack at night. Might as well install a no-planes mod with a surface mod, why drive a sub anymore when you have more torpedoes and guns and are way faster on a destroyer.

[Sniper297]

I understand your feelings on this, but the best way to experience constant air attacks is to be a U-boat skipper in 1944. Not a question of challenge versus no challenge, it's a question of realistic challenge. The Pacific is a vast ocean compared to the Atlantic and North Sea, and the Japanese never had anywhere near the numbers of long range patrol bombers and hunter killer ASW groups that the Americans and British eventually had.

Being forced under by an airplane within 200 miles of the enemy coast or within 200 miles of an approaching enemy carrier task force once in a while is realistic, getting an air attack every hour day or night 10 miles west of Midway is not realistic. The original stock game went WAY overboard with air attacks, they really needed to be toned down from the wingtip to wingtip coverage of the entire ocean.

[merc4ulfate]

MIDWAY: Unless that plane from the Japanese has come from the Tasks forces lurking in the area which just happened to me. The carriers, cruisers and battleships with planes had me down once an hour trying to find them.

I love it

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
1_TMO_25_small_patch
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
Improved Ship Physics 2.6_TMO_RSRDC
TMO_Visuals_for_RSRDC
FJB_Navigation_Maps
FJB Color Navigation Map
Gyoraitei
11 New Ships + Yamato AA Fix by Miner1436
Ship pack 1
More_DDs_for_AITorpedoLauncher
More_IJNDDs_AITorpedolauncher
SMALLER SEA PLANTS SMALL
SMALLER SEABED ROCKS
#5 Depthcharge Sound
#2 Other Clouds
Webster's Eliminate Floating Plankton for v1.4 and v1.5
Aircraft_reflections
Hull_Numbers

[tomoose]

I think it may be perceived unrealistic due to (possibly) using time compression which obviously makes them appear much more often. If you went across the Pacific in "real-time" the enemy aircraft encounters would be much further apart so to speak.

For what it's worth;
I draw a 600km radius circle on the map centered on Tokyo and a couple of other possible enemy air "bases". This gives me a rough range limit and tripwire for when I should start being really concerned about aircraft. I cruise on the surface until I reach the edge of these circles. Once inside those ranges I start "watching" for enemy aircraft (i.e. air radar is on and raised to full height).

It's a relatively crude indicator but it allows me to confidently cruise on the surface for at least half of the voyage. It has not failed me yet.

Once I get a contact on air radar, time compression never goes above 32 (otherwise the aircraft is on you before you can do anything). This time compression setting lets the game warn you of a visual siting and enough reaction time to get underwater to safety.

My two cents.

[Sniper297]

" If you went across the Pacific in "real-time" the enemy aircraft encounters would be much further apart so to speak."

Much further apart in real life meant non existent. In game the original 1.0 version had constant air attacks while attempting to cross the ocean, all the accounts I've read of actual WWII subs there were occasional encounters with IJN submarines, but no air attacks until within 500 miles of Japan.

Question of practicality, in real life a 360 degree patrol out to 1200 miles was impossible, a 180 degree coverage in the most likely direction would have required every available airplane and pilot and would have used up every drop of fuel they had in less than a week. Remember one of the primary reasons the Japanese HAD to go to war when they did was dwindling oil reserves, if they had waited another year the Pearl Harbor attack would have been impossible.

For the game, however, the AI is not really trying to cheat, it's a question of processor resources - rather than sending out random patrols with a random chance of getting lucky, it's more efficient to program the subroutine to have the player sub trigger a patrol within X miles of an airbase/carrier which then makes a beeline for the player sub. The problem is they overdid it;

[AirStrikeSettings]
; AirStrike Creation Parameters
; Airstrike Session:
; 1. Compute airbases in range according to their aircraft maximum ranges
; 2. Compute air coverage factors on allies/axis/neutral on the target zone
; 3. Compute airstrike probability from each base
; 3.1 check number of aircraft that can strike at that range and conditions, and compute a coverage factor based on the range of each aircraft type
; and detection area around submarine ( 10 km radius )
; 3.2 multiply coverage factor for the target area with :
; - current airstrike probability againt that side
; - nigft factor ( if necessary )
; - airbase competence
; - close to airbase factor
; 3.3 check probability for airstrike
; 3.4 add more aircraft probabilistically for a large target


Maximum Aircraft Range=2000 ;[>0] in kilometers
Poor Airbase Modifier=0.2 ;[>0] Modifier for poor airbase (carrier) rating
Novice Airbase Modifier=0.35 ;[>0] Modifier for novice airbase (carrier) rating
Competent Airbase Modifier=0.5 ;[>0] Modifier for competent airbase (carrier) rating
Veteran Airbase Modifier=0.7 ;[>0] Modifier for veteran airbase (carrier) rating
Elite Airbase Modifier=1 ;[>0] Modifier for elite airbase (carrier) rating
Night Modifier=0.5 ;[>0] Modifier on strike probability at night
Default Air Strike Probability=10 ;[>0] Default probability to send an airstrike from a airbase (carrier)
Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Radio Messages Sent=30 ;[>0] Increase over the default probability on a radio message sent
Friendly Air Strike Probability Increase on Contact Report Sent=70 ;[>0] Increase over the default probability on a contact message sent
Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Player Detection=40 ;[>0] Increase over the default probability on player detection
Atenuation Factor=10 ;[>0] decrease from an increased probability to default one on each air session
Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=10 ;[>0] steps between air fighting sessions, 10*Logic Interval(90sec)

2000 klicks is 1080 nautical miles, meaning to go that distance, search for an hour, and return to base the aircraft would need to have a range of at least 2500 nautical miles. The editors default to "Veteran" quality meaning most airbases would have a 70% chance of launching every 15 minutes, practically guaranteeing at least one per hour. Then flying directly to an area within 10kM (5.3 nautical miles) of the player sub. Reduced by 50% at night despite the primitive night flying instruments at the time and the few pilots actually qualified to fly in the dark.

Again I have no problem with SOMETIMES being forced to patrol submerged all day in enemy waters, that's reasonable. While transiting the vast emptiness of the Pacific it's not reasonable or realistic.