"Fury" - Movie. Bollywood Boycott Time again

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

When people throw the word "allegedly" in they are.

Now, see, i knew you'd twist that allegedly into your way of thinking. Or rather assuming.
To make it clear for you, i used the word allegedly in the context of the number is continuously being revised.
There you have it. It's all about context and in your case, assuming and out of context.
Next.

Plus of course his nationalist blindness means he can't see that Hitler did all those things he says he didn't do.

No blindness going on. Ie no denial. Ie no disputing that something went on. Ie you are basing your assumptions on taking my words out of context and assuming i am denying the holocaust.
Next.

[Feuer Frei!]

@ikalugin

there are of course many instances where not just the Poles were suffers of the 'Russian Repression'.
Or The great purge.

Katyn massacre comes to mind as an example.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

@ikalugin

there are of course many instances where not just the Poles were suffers of the 'Russian Repression'.
Or The great purge.

Katyn massacre comes to mind as an example.

Sure Katyn did happen (execution of PoWs in general), however does it really compare to the targeted removal of Polish population by NAZI regime with 90 percent target?

I mean if Stalin (and Soviet regime) was as bad as Hitler (and NAZI regime) then chances of me arguing with a Polish forum member would be slimmer shall we say, after 44 or so years of Soviet hold over the Eastern Europe.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

I mean if Stalin (and Soviet regime) was as bad as Hitler (and NAZI regime)

Was? Now now, Иосиф was the heavy weight of murderers in ww2.
If we are just talking about the removal of Poles:
As for targeted removal of Poles by the Nazis, well, do you really think that when Nazis invaded Poland in September that the Poles, looking behind them, thought that they were safe with Иосиф?
Of course not.
Stalin had his own plans for his half of the Poles.

That is a well-known fact.

[ikalugin]

So did Soviets have a program for physical removal of 90 percent of Polish population? How many Polish were murdered by Soviets (compared to Germans)?

Or do you deny existence of General Plan East?

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

So did Soviets have a program for physical removal of 90 percent of Polish population? How many Polish were murdered by Soviets (compared to Germans)?

Or do you deny existence of General Plan East?

The non-aggression pact had a secret protocol that divided regions, Poland amongst others into SOI's.

17 September Stalin ordered his own invasion of Poland.
Both shared goals of eradication.

You should also know that the Poles were considered enemies of communism and Russia national inspirations.

[ikalugin]

The non-aggression pact had a secret protocol that divided regions, Poland amongst others into SOI's.

17 September Stalin ordered his own invasion of Poland.
Both shared goals of eradication.

So did the Soviets or did they not have plans as to physical removal of Polish population on the scale that NAZI Germany did (90 percent under General Plan Ost)?

If so, do you have any evidence that such plan existed and/or was under execution by Soviet authorities?

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

You are denying the scale of the crime and rejected the magnitude of the crime

Wrong. You should do some research on the infamous 6 million figure of the holocaust.
And you will, as most of us that have researched that number, come to the conclusion that the number hasn't always been 6 million. In fact, it has been revised so many times.
That is why i used the word alleged. In context. Not out of context.

The context is that you are upset that the Nazis are portrayed as bad guys in a movie

Let's remember though, there is a difference between Germans and Nazis.

and your justification is that the Stalinists were bad guys too.

Well of course it's justifiably so, that the Communist USSR was bad.
Really bad.
So bad in fact that they killed more than Hitler.
That makes them bad guys. In anyone's book.

[ikalugin]

Just to clarify my position.

- I separate Germans from the NAZI organisations and government, as per Nurenberg trial NAZI party and relevant organisations illegally siezed power in Germany.

- Stalin (and Soviet regime) was a lesser evil than Hitler (and NAZI regime) due to the fact that even though it was harsh and unforgiving, it did not plan for physical eradication of entire other people as such.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

11 million dear.
You forgot all the victims of the holocaust through the stuff you said the Nazis didn't do.

Didn't do? Oh dear....a snowball effect is happening here.
I'll make it stop.

Is there a difference? that would depend on what you are talking about
Since you are defending Germans and claiming that Hitler wasn't that bad as Stalin was worse perhaps you should draw your distinctions more carefully

Yep defending Germans, and stating that Hitler wasn't as bad as Stalin, if we are to go by the numbers.
That's what i said. Distinctively drawn conclusion i'd say.
Remember, using Hitler and Germans in the same sentence in the context of this specific discussion is not optimal.

Which doesn't make the Nazis any better

No but it makes them not the only bad guys around in Hollywood movies and also in ww2. Far from it.

Still doesn't make Nazis anything other that lowlife scum.
Depicting lowlife scum as bad guys in a movie is perfectly acceptable.
Why are you uspet by it?

Well, could we depict maybe lowlife commy scum in a Hollywood movie and kill em all until the last 1 burns and save the day and earth from Communism?
Or aren't we allowed to call them that because you know, they were the 1 of the big 4?

[Feuer Frei!]

Well, ikalugin, i'm afraid that if you need the Nuremberg trials to decide for you the difference btw a German and nazi then i don't really know what else to say to you.

Revionist?
No revision there, of course you will defend your illutrious leader to the hilt, because most Russians to this day do so, saying that Stalin was 1 of the best leaders the country ever had.
Of course, because to deport so many ethnic groups to the gulags and concentration camps, he needed a lot of servants for that.
His fingers reach far and wide, even to this day there would be relatives of relatives that had relatives who did his genocidal bidding.

Seriously if you keep exhonerating him and saying he wasn't as bad as Hitler then i'm afraid the we have nothing left to discuss.
Especially since you don't want to see the truth and call it revisionism
Typical.

I don't have an issue with my heritage.
It seems you need to revise your countrie's history a bit more, especially that of your nobel piece price nominee.
If that doesn't give anyone a clue as to how farcical and fabricated and fantastical some of this allied ww2 saga is then i really don't know.

And this 90% thing, you can have that if you want. If it makes you sleep better at night.
Still doesn't change anything about Stalin or the things i told you to look up, which you conveniently call revionism.
Newsflash my friend, Russia in 1990, yes it took them that long, admitted guilt to Katyn massacre, after trying to pin it on the Nazis. Funny stuff really.
But of course we both know that Katyb was just the tip of the iceberg so to speak.
We both know it, others know it.
Stalin knew it.

[ikalugin]

I'll make it stop.

So should or should we not stop this discussion?

If you do not wish to continue I won't force it and would exit the discussion as well. As such I give you the benefit of the doubt, counting two of your last posts as a single last statement.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

So should or should we not stop this discussion?

If you do not wish to continue I won't force it and would exit the discussion as well. As such I give you the benefit of the doubt, counting two of your last posts as a single last statement.

No ill feelings to you of course, i hope you don't take this as a personal attack, rather a free-spirited discussion point in which we both have our points of view.

[ikalugin]

No ill feelings to you of course, i hope you don't take this as a personal attack, rather a free-spirited discussion point in which we both have our points of view.

My question still stands, especially considering the thread derailment aspect.

[Jimbuna]

Seriously guys, wasn't this thread supposed to be about a new movie release???