ISIS in Brisbane and Sydney.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Absolutely, and it's a thriving market, I have little doubt that ISIL is actively paying people in western countries to recruit and send people into Syria, it makes sense for them to do so.

Yeah. Unfortunately, that's just sort of clandestine activity that sets the already touchy paranoia meter here higher.

Eventually, I hope these kids learn not to drink the Kool-Aid these cults are offering. In this case, the cult is the Kool-Aid.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

Yeah. Unfortunately, that's just sort of clandestine activity that sets the already touchy paranoia meter here higher.

Eventually, I hope these kids learn not to drink the Kool-Aid these cults are offering. In this case, the cult is the Kool-Aid.

Fear is something easier to spread than tolerance. Whilst there are many who won't drink the Kool-Aid, including those I linked to earlier, there are sadly all too many, especially those in the teenage years who are struggling with hormones as much as they are religion and social order, who are prime targets for radicalisation.

That's not to say there isn't hope...you see videos like this:


And perhaps there is hope, I'd like to think there is, that we can eventually cut off the supply lines to the likes of ISIL by estranging them from their customer base, but this is a process that will take a long time and every time ISIL kills a hostage or an Islamic act against the west is reported in the news then it's a set back for both Islam and the west, because you know that people are going to react emotionally first and rationally a distant second...that's human nature, that's exactly what the terrorists are counting on, they want disproportionate retaliation, they want the Middle East to be nuked, because that will just open the floodgates to manpower the likes of which they can only dream about right now...and sadly, there are some people in the west, who are anti-Islam and they are just playing right into their hands without even seeing it.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Fear is something easier to spread than tolerance. Whilst there are many who won't drink the Kool-Aid, including those I linked to earlier, there are sadly all too many, especially those in the teenage years who are struggling with hormones as much as they are religion and social order, who are prime targets for radicalisation.

That's not to say there isn't hope...you see videos like this:


And perhaps there is hope, I'd like to think there is, that we can eventually cut off the supply lines to the likes of ISIL by estranging them from their customer base, but this is a process that will take a long time and every time ISIL kills a hostage or an Islamic act against the west is reported in the news then it's a set back for both Islam and the west, because you know that people are going to react emotionally first and rationally a distant second...that's human nature, that's exactly what the terrorists are counting on, they want disproportionate retaliation, they want the Middle East to be nuked, because that will just open the floodgates to manpower the likes of which they can only dream about right now...and sadly, there are some people in the west, who are anti-Islam and they are just playing right into their hands without even seeing it.

There is ofcourse that unethical (and completely extreme) option - physical destruction of the hostile group's structure, with powerful propaganda/conversion mechanism to back it up and mop up the majority that is left behind.

However as this option is unethical, I cannot support it.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

There is ofcourse that unethical (and completely extreme) option - physical destruction of the hostile group's structure, with powerful propaganda/conversion mechanism to back it up and mop up the majority that is left behind.

However as this option is unethical, I cannot support it.

They make a desert and call it peace. --Publius Tactius

Yeah, that's so appealing in the beginning but always comes back to haunt you long term. We have enough unsettling parallels to Rome here in the US already. Somewhere there needs to be a carrot to go along with the stick.

[ikalugin]

I was actually making a paralel with the cetral asian history. Ie the general way to subdue the people there (the way I cannot support in the modern times due to its unethical means of attaining the ends) was:
- kill everyone apart from the too old (who will die before transfering their culture to the young) and the too young. The term for this was to kill "everyone taller than the sword (placed in the ground)" I think.
- indoctrinate the young.

However for obvious reasons (informational freedom) nowadays one has to completely irradicate the culture and thus perform essentially the genocyde, even considering how much did the humanity improve the indoctrination methods.

Thus such method while attaining the objective (removing hostile culture without killing everyone) is still unethical as it still requires physical removal for a substantial percentage of population. And thus I cannot advocate it.

The reason why I bring it up at all, is because (atleast to me) radical islamism appears to have a lot of common points with the medevill era culture stuff, thus one can look at the historic paralels as part of pure academic line of thought.

[Oberon]

The problem with that is the media, the world is a smaller place, so any attempt to conduct such an unethical scheme would be picked up by your detractors and broadcast around the world within days, if not hours, and then you would have people on the street, on the rooftops and you would be put in the Hague and executed.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Oberon

The problem with that is the media, the world is a smaller place, so any attempt to conduct such an unethical scheme would be picked up by your detractors and broadcast around the world within days, if not hours, and then you would have people on the street, on the rooftops and you would be put in the Hague and executed.

True that. News travels in ways it never did in the distant past. Public Relation fiascos probably weren't too high on any rulers agenda's a few hundred years ago.

On the other hand, firing a half million dollar missile at a half-ton pick-up truck seems like a losing proposition too. The fireball may be momentarily satisfying, but you're going into the hole financially.