V2: The Nazi rocket that launched the space age

[eddie]

Its war record aside, the V2 was the stepping stone to further rocket development by both sides. With von Braun in the States after the war, what was learned from the technology of the V2 would lead in the end, to rockets like the Atlas, Titan and finally the Saturn V.

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by eddie

Its war record aside, the V2 was the stepping stone to further rocket development by both sides. With von Braun in the States after the war, what was learned from the technology of the V2 would lead in the end, to rockets like the Atlas, Titan and finally the Saturn V.

Lets not forget the innerworkings that did lead to more,
the basic technology of the gyros evolved into classic
cold war inertial navigation systems.
(Note: a device still used heavily by submarine simulators
world wide, )
also the Graphite steering fins in the exhaust were the
progenitors of modern advanced carbon fiber composites.
Itself a remarkable enabling technology.
Further the principle of the fuel system ran through many generations
of liquid fueled rockets, and has landed several things on other planets
and brought a few things back to this one.

Mush

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by eddie

Its war record aside, the V2 was the stepping stone to further rocket development by both sides. With von Braun in the States after the war, what was learned from the technology of the V2 would lead in the end, to rockets like the Atlas, Titan and finally the Saturn V.

He was a criminal that should have been executed, but we needed him so he got a get out of jail free card. It really bothers me our space program has such large amounts of blood on it's hands.

[eddie]

So did the Russians. I'm not saying von Braun was innocent, far from it, but rather him in the States then in Russia.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

He was a criminal that should have been executed, but we needed him so he got a get out of jail free card. It really bothers me our space program has such large amounts of blood on it's hands.

Well, there's the sad irony that our space program might have had more self-inflicted blood on our hands without von Braun. Almost all of those rockets that ignominously blew up on the pad in the early days of the space race were the non-von Braun models, such as the Thor, Atlas, Titan, Navaho, and the infamous Vanguard, which Eisenhower designated as the "civilian project' rocket that would get the US into space, satellite-wise.

On the other hand, von Braun's Redstone based Jupiter-C/Juno 1 vehicle rarely had problems. Even the Jupiter-based Juno II only had one failure attributable to its first stage, the others being due to the solid upper stages misfiring. Every one of the Saturns lifted off fine and performed within operational tolerances.

So, you have to give the devil his due. The man knew his rockets.

People often ask why von Braun didn't try to defect instead of going along with the Nazis and their atrocities.

He did, at the first possible occasion!

When the Allies were close enough, Wernher sent his brother secretly to contact the Allies and arrange for the rocket team to surrender at Oberammergau. In defiance of Nazi orders to destroy V-2 research, von Braun packed it up and trucked it across Germany to deliver to the Allies. Not the most ardent Nazi he. More of an opportunist.

Von Braun displayed a similar lack of loyalty to NASA. According to astronaut Ed Mitchell, once von Braun saw that NASA wasn't going to keep funding his vision, he left NASA and went to private industry.

[Buddahaid]

Opportunist is likely the best description since he certainly seized the opportunity to use slave labor to death to advance his ambitions. I doubt he cared a wit about who he worked for, or what means he used, to further them. He just chose what looked to be the best offer and gloated all the way to the bank.

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

He was a criminal that should have been executed, but we needed him so he got a get out of jail free card. It really bothers me our space program has such large amounts of blood on it's hands.

No one anywhere is any different, all humans no exceptions are opportunists,
really Von Braun lived his dream at any expense. Many do!.
Who is to say they are wrong history remembers them not us?
What is a war crime?.
What is a crime against humanity?

On balance, was Von Brauns contribution greater than his detriment?.


Mush!

[Dread Knot]

Personally, I think that no-one who has not lived in a dictatorship like the Nazi regime (so basically all of us) has no business condemning von Braun for his actions. To vilify him because when push came to shove he wasn't a martyr to our ideals and worked with a corrupt regime rather than risk getting shot or worse is a bit arrogant.

Along those lines, should we doubt that Leonardo da Vinci did the work he is credited with, or lessen the importance of that work, because he worked for Medici, who was basically a dictator (and for all I know a very nice one, but it wasn't a democracy) And what about the fact that a lot of da Vinci's time was spent on developing weapons? Weapons way ahead of their time...but in many ways so was the V-2.

Interestingly, Von Braun did have his run-ins with the Gestapo. He was arrested in March 1944 on order of Heinrich von Himmler. He was accused of treason and disruptiveness of the German Reich as well as undertaking preparation to flee to England. This would have normaly been punished with the death penalty. He was freed only because of the direct intervention by Albert Speer and Walter Robert Dornberger. Adolf Hitler himself personally ordered him set free because of his importance within the A4 project. Of course, that sense of self-importance in his younger years could also explain why American colleagues in his later career often found him "pompous and arrogant."

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

that sense of self-importance in his younger years could also explain why American colleagues in his later career often found him "pompous and arrogant."

If you are posting on this thread your spouse and several of your best friends
have said this about you.

[STEED]

V2 as a weapon was a joke but as a stepping stone to the moon well that is different.

[vanjast]

I read (or saw) somewhere that von Braun 'technically sabotaged' the V2 program, thus delaying it's deployment. IIRC he purposely was slow in solving the problems, until he was threatened with a firing squad. What choice could anyone have ?

If this is true then credit to him.

Anyone saying that he should have defected, is a bit naive. Goverments can be very efficient on deception and clamp downs. Just look to the west .
Hitler kept all his dirty work under wraps, and was seen as the 'German saviour' considering where Germany was and where it came from. Very few take notice of the warnings, preferring not to believe until it's too late.

[STEED]

Read this book years ago, worth a read if you want to know more.

The Rocket and the Reich
Peenemunde and the Coming of the Ballistic Missile Era

By Michael J. Neufeld

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by vanjast

I read (or saw) somewhere that von Braun 'technically sabotaged' the V2 program, thus delaying it's deployment. IIRC he purposely was slow in solving the problems, until he was threatened with a firing squad. What choice could anyone have ?

As I recall, there is some controversy about that. Von Braun after the war downplayed his role, not unlike a lot of other former Nazis, but most of the historical evidence supports the thesis that he was a diligent supporter of the regime.

Yes, he was arrested by Himmler, but there was a lot of that going on in the final years as all the top Nazis were trying to expand their power base.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

No one anywhere is any different, all humans no exceptions are opportunists,
really Von Braun lived his dream at any expense. Many do!.
Who is to say they are wrong history remembers them not us?
What is a war crime?.
What is a crime against humanity?

On balance, was Von Brauns contribution greater than his detriment?.


Mush!

I am not sure all that many people went to the extent that Von Braun did.Of course his goals where for space flight he got in bed with some nasty people. That being said it was the military not Von Braun that had the V2 made by slave labor. History should record all of the good and bad a person did.

Plenty of people pursue their dreams with out making the kinds of morale compromise that Von Braun did.