Question about Destroyer Command ship behaviors

[BradR]

The ships bunch into a main group with a few outlying ships going in varied directions. It looks something like this


^ /
I x
I
xx x ---->
xxxxx outlyer
xx
big jumbled, squirming bunch

<--- x x ----->


They are originally in a formation that looks like this:


x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x destroyers
x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x

x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x cruisers
x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x

etc.

The chaos is consistent with every ship on the field. They are either in the squirming bunch that slowly makes it's way in relatively the desired direction or an individual outlayer that keeps going in a random direction until it hits land, as I tried to get my crude diagram to show.

The spacing between each ship, both forward and to the side, is increments of .005. By what I mean is, if the first ship is at coordinates:

6.485000,55.915000

then the ship to the immediate right is at coordinates:

6.490000,55.915000

and the ship right below them is at coordinates:

6.485000,55.910000

Make sense? Could it be that I have them spaced too closely? Should I use increments of .010 or more? By the way, thank you so much for the help.

[BradR]

diagram didn't work when the post was sent but the idea is there's a big, swarming bunch going one relative direction and then a few individual ships going in random directions.

[tmccarthy]

Have you tried the Ctrl+D function to find exact Long/Lat positions?

In the sim pressing Ctrl+D once give you an overlay with info such as frames per second. Pressing Ctrl+D again gives you "Position": the exact longitude and latitude of your ship to the smallest increment like for example 06.485359,55.915672.

I've not had success placing ships using my own coordinates, nor been able to understand the logic of adding increments to space units accurately. Often ships show up nowhere near where I hope for them to be.

I have had success placing ships by starting with a Destroyer on the map for the mission I'm writing and driving my ship to each position I want to place a unit and then recording the exact Long/Lat (with Ctrl+D) to obtain the coordinates to be written in the mission file.

While doing this I also place map notes to layout the planned formations for the mission.

Tim

[BradR]

I've actually had a lot of success using the increment method. I noticed very early on that the coordinates in game are different than the ones used in the programming. The coordinates in the game stop at x.60 before changing to the next x coordinate where in the programming it goes to x.99. I have no problem getting the ships to show up exactly where I want them. They just don't stay in the formation I want them to. The ctrl+D will help may help in exactly placing the ships, especially land batteries, so I'll try it and get accustomed to it. Thank you for the tip. I'm going to try to space the ships using increments of .10 or .15 and see if that helps. It does seem like they are over correcting to avoid collisions. That may explain the big swarming mass. If anyone has any other tips for making scenarios, I'm all ears!

[tmccarthy]

Cool. I think you are on the right track addressing ship spacing and AI overreacting to avoid collision. Might it have something to do with the starting "speed order"?

I've noticed that even with a small unit like four DD's in column at 500 yard intervals ordering Full Ahead from a dead stop can cause problems with the formation, ships spacing and ships overtaking each other.

The AI seems to do better when it's "handled gently". Starting slow 1/3 Ahead for a bit and then 2/3 Ahead and so on.

I wonder how your formation would hold together with a very slow starting speed like Exact,2 (3.6 knots)?

[tmccarthy]

Also in regards to Exact Speeds in the example in the first post there is:

Order3.1 = Speed,Exact,21,-1,-1

Would that indicate a speed above 36 knots?

I use the "SDF Editor's Aid for SHII and DC" by Kapitanleutnant Hahl which defines EXACT speed units as meters per second with examples:

1 (mps) = 1.8 knots

5 (mps) = 9.0 knots

10 (mps) = 18 knots

[BradR]

Sorry for the pause of my reply, I was inundated with homework. I had believed the 21 to stand for knots. I changed the speed to 11.67 mps. Is this an acceptable set of orders for handling them gently?

[GROUP2]
Type = SHIPSQUADRON
UnitType = BATTLESHIP
Side = 2
Name = I-V Battle Squadron
Nationality = German
Order1.1 = ROE,Capital,Unlimited,Destroy,Cruising,Full,-1,-1
Order1.2 = Formation,FORM_AS_ARE,500,8,-1,-1
Order1.3 = Speed,Exact,2,-1,-1
Order1.4 = WayPt2,6.455000,55.755000,-1,-1
Order2.1 = Speed,Exact,5,-1,-1
Order2.2 = WayPt2,6.455000,55.765000,-1,-1
Order3.1 = Speed,Exact,8,-1,-1
Order3.2 = WayPt2,6.455000,55.775000,-1,-1
Order4.1 = Speed,Exact,11.67,-1,-1
Order4.2 = WayPt2,6.455000,57.000000,-1,-1
Order5.1 = WayPt2,6.455000,56.000000,-1,-1
Order6.1 = WayPt2,6.455000,57.000000,-1,-1
Order7.1 = WayPt2,6.455000,56.000000,-1,-1
Order8.1 = WayPt2,6.455000,57.000000,-1,-1
WayptDisplay = DO_NOT_SHOW