“We gave you three days to recant but you insist on not returning to Islam"

[Mr Quatro]

No we can't group them all together ...

for one they don't even know they are doing the wrong thing by being led by a man telling them what to do instead of the words of Jesus Christ the true son of God.

If you ask a Catholic person if they are a Christian ... they will say, "No" we are Catholics.

Christ like, being like Christ, Christ means the anointed one, the promised one. Christianity is being filled with the Spirit of the living God.

We are predestined to be like Christ (I would have to find the scripture, but it is written)

We don't know what we will be like when Jesus comes back, but we do know that we will be more like Him. 1 john 3:2

This is what Jesus thinks of religion: St Matthew 7:22-23

"Not all those who say ‘You are our Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven. The only people who will enter the kingdom of heaven are those who do what my Father in heaven wants.

Jesus will reject many who believe in religion upon His return to earth.

"On the last day many people will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, we spoke for you, and through you we forced out demons and did many miracles.’ Then I will tell them clearly, ‘Get away from me, you who do evil. I never knew you.’

I don't mean to argue the difference in Christ and religion. I just want to defend my faith.

As for Mr Gandhi ... I have yet to meet anyone from India that I like either, but I'll keep looking lol

[mapuc]

Today in our modern world..it could be that Christianity isn't a religion for some and it is for other

Many century ago Christianity or it's believe it was a religion

people, most of them, lived by the holy Bible

that's how I understand it.

Furthermore

Every religious believer think they have God's approval and are the right one in God's view and the others are not.

Markus

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

As for Mr Gandhi ... I have yet to meet anyone from India that I like either, but I'll keep looking lol

It's funny that you should say that, because Gandhi and Jesus have a lot of similarities in their behaviour. Both of them came from occupations that were completely unrelated to their future roles, Gandhi was a lawyer, Jesus a carpenter, both dealt with an occupying force, Jesus the Roman Empire, Gandhi the British Empire, and both called for non-violent resistance to the occupation.
If you take a historical look at some of Jesus's sayings, you'll see just how much of a rebel he was, take for example this famous quote:

But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. —Matthew 5:39-42

I'm going to bring across something I read on a blog a while ago and put it here:

"But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."

This specifically refers to a hand striking the side of a person’s face, tells quite a different story when placed in it’s proper historical context. In Jesus’s time, striking someone of a lower class ( a servant) with the back of the hand was used to assert authority and dominance. If the persecuted person “turned the other cheek,” the discipliner was faced with a dilemma. The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed. Another alternative would be a slap with the open hand as a challenge or to punch the person, but this was seen as a statement of equality. Thus, by turning the other cheek the persecuted was in effect putting an end to the behavior or if the slapping continued the person would lawfully be deemed equal and have to be released as a servant/slave.

I can attest to the original poster’s comments. A few years back I took an intensive seminar on faith-based progressive activism, and we spent an entire unit discussing how many of Jesus’ instructions and stories were performative protests designed to shed light on and ridicule the oppressions of that time period as a way to emphasize the absurdity of the social hierarchy and give people the will and motivation to make changes for a more free and equal society.
For example, the next verse (Matthew 5:40) states “And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.” In that time period, men traditionally wore a shirt and a coat-like garment as their daily wear. To sue someone for their shirt was to put them in their place - suing was generally only performed to take care of outstanding debts, and to be sued for one’s shirt meant that the person was so destitute the only valuable thing they could repay with was their own clothing. However, many cultures at that time (including Hebrew peoples) had prohibitions bordering on taboo against public nudity, so for a sued man to surrender both his shirt and his coat was to turn the system on its head and symbolically state, in a very public forum, that “I have no money with which to repay this person, but they are so insistent on taking advantage of my poverty that I am leaving this hearing buck-ass naked. His greed is the cause of a shameful public spectacle.”

All of a sudden an action of power (suing someone for their shirt) becomes a powerful symbol of subversion and mockery, as the suing patron either accepts the coat (and therefore full responsibility as the cause of the other man’s shameful display) or desperately chases the protester around trying to return his clothes to him, making a fool of himself in front of his peers and the entire gathered community.
Additionally, the next verse (Matthew 5:41; “If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles.”) was a big middle finger to the Romans who had taken over Judea and were not seen as legitimate authority by the majority of the population there. Roman law stated that a centurion on the march could require a Jew (and possibly other civilians as well, although I don’t remember explicitly) to carry his pack at any time and for any reason for one mile along the road (and because of the importance of the Roman highway system in maintaining rule over the expansive empire, the roads tended to be very well ordered and marked), however he could not require any service beyond the next mile marker. For a Jewish civilian to carry a centurion’s pack for an entire second mile was a way to subvert the authority of the occupying forces. If the civilian wouldn’t give the pack back at the end of the first mile, the centurion would either have to forcibly take it back or report the civilian to his commanding officer (both of which would result in discipline being taken against the soldier for breaking Roman law) or wait until the civilian volunteered to return the pack, giving the Judean native implicit power over the occupying Roman and completely subverting the power structure of the Empire. Can you imagine how demoralizing that must have been for the highly ordered Roman armies that patrolled the region?
Jesus was a pacifist, but his teachings were in no way passive. There’s a reason he was practically considered a terrorist by the reigning powers, and it wasn’t because he healed the sick and fed the hungry.

You can see, through historical context how different the true meaning of these words were than how they are portrayed in society today. In short, different times meant that things meant different things than they do today (that really wasn't much shorter, was it? ). Which brings me back to the various translations of the bible. When someone says that they follow the bible, do they mean that they follow the original copy which has been lost to time, because that is the only one that will not contain some form of editing or alteration in it. It's like a game of Chinese whispers, eventually degradation will slip in and things will change. Let's not forget either that back before the invention of the printing press, each bible was hand transcribed in latin, meaning that only the priests could understand it and preach it. Who is to say that each preaching priest did not add his own slant to the text, in order to please a certain noble or a reigning monarch?

Do Christians go to church? Do Christians believe that the pope is God representative on earth? Does this not go against the beliefs of Jesus against authority and organised religion? The extravagance of the Vatican, the gold and silver of the church, does this not remind anyone of the gold being counted in the temples? There are so, so many contradictions between organised religion based around Christ and the teachings of Christ that it's little wonder that so many people have moved away from it, it is hypocritical and if there's one thing that people hate, it's hypocrisy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking the words of Christ, nor am I directly attacking your faith, it's good to have faith in something, but it's when these words are twisted into things that they are not, when a whole organisation which contradicts the meaning of Jesus's words is built up around them, that makes me sad, and I think that if Jesus did come back and saw what we have done with what he said, he would be sad too.

[TarJak]

One wonders why your faith needs defending?

Perhaps you need the assistance of the ultimate defender:

[mapuc]

On a friends wall(he's a Muslim) I wrote

Any religion that have to do such things against its believers is a religion in crisis

Markus

Islam - the religion of peace!

[Wolferz]

Oberon's blog quote really hits the nail on the head. Maybe the blogger was a carpenter too. Bible based religions aren't based in a faith in God or his son. They are based in an almost rabid belief in an incomplete book that was translated and pieced together by men with an agenda. In other words it's of the world.

Many of the teachings of Christ found in this book were based heavily in metaphor and parable. The people of today know very little of the history of the days when the twelve wrote their epistles of the life of Christ. There are also numerous translation errors in the Old Testament. Which is just a history of the Hebrew tribes of Israel. Again, People today try to apply those stories to modern times and it's like comparing a modern jet to the airplane invented by the Wright brothers.
All you really need is the faith of a Mustard seed. Not a modern literal translation of an ancient text molded (badly) to fit a religious doctrine.
It's no wonder there are so many people running around dazed and confused.

[Skybird]

It's called Führerprinzip.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by TarJak

One wonders why your faith needs defending?

Perhaps you need the assistance of the ultimate defender:

I agree with Oberon Jesus would be disappointed with modern humans. People fail to see how much of a rebel he was.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

No we can't group them all together ...

Yes, we can.

for one they don't even know they are doing the wrong thing by being led by a man telling them what to do instead of the words of Jesus Christ the true son of God.

You make that distinction. Can you show any evidence of what you believe, outside what the Bible says?

If you ask a Catholic person if they are a Christian ... they will say, "No" we are Catholics.

Not even close to true. I attended a Catholic high school for awhile, have known several Catholics over the years and have studied many Catholic teachings. While they identify their official church as Catholic, the vast majority identify themselves as Christians. Most Christians also identify themselves as Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians etc.

Christ like, being like Christ, Christ means the anointed one, the promised one. Christianity is being filled with the Spirit of the living God.

So you believe, as I used to. The problem is that everyone who believes anything believes that they also have the only true faith. Christians are no different in that respect.

We are predestined to be like Christ (I would have to find the scripture, but it is written)

Then you should find it. Consider, though, that it is still no more provable than anyone else's scripture.

We don't know what we will be like when Jesus comes back, but we do know that we will be more like Him. 1 john 3:2

You believe that. You don't "know" it, anymore than anyone else knows anything based on faith. You may be right, but if you can't prove it then it's just faith and nothing more...or less.

I don't mean to argue the difference in Christ and religion.

And yet that was how you started your very first post.

As for Mr Gandhi ... I have yet to meet anyone from India that I like either, but I'll keep looking lol

Does Jesus have anything to say about mocking other people?

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Yes, we can.

Of course but that doesn't mean it's accurate.

You make that distinction. Can you show any evidence of what you believe, outside what the Bible says?

He's talking about the Holy See I think.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

Of course but that doesn't mean it's accurate.

Very true, but it works both ways. All believers believe that their way is the truth, and everything else is a lie. None of them can prove it, so faith is all they have.

He's talking about the Holy See I think.

Would the Pope deny being a Christian? He may not fit a Protestant's definition, but he certainly considers himself a follower of Christ. Unless of course he's one of the many over the centuries who merely uses the position to further his own ends. But that is also true of many others who call themselves "Christian".

So who really has the truth? Please show me.

Back to the topic, yes we have Muslims killing Christians for refusing to renounce their faith. We have people killing people for a lot of reasons, none of them particularly good. At least we no longer have Christians killing Christians for refusing to renounce their faith.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Very true, but it works both ways. All believers believe that their way is the truth, and everything else is a lie. None of them can prove it, so faith is all they have.


Would the Pope deny being a Christian? He may not fit a Protestant's definition, but he certainly considers himself a follower of Christ. Unless of course he's one of the many over the centuries who merely uses the position to further his own ends. But that is also true of many others who call themselves "Christian".

So who really has the truth? Please show me.

Back to the topic, yes we have Muslims killing Christians for refusing to renounce their faith. We have people killing people for a lot of reasons, none of them particularly good. At least we no longer have Christians killing Christians for refusing to renounce their faith.

But Steve, the truth is there if you really really open your heart to it and discern the word.....All 1200 denominations and all the different major religions believe this.....all you have to do is pick one!

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Very true, but it works both ways. All believers believe that their way is the truth, and everything else is a lie. None of them can prove it, so faith is all they have.

We're not talking about faith, we're talking about identification and categorization of a subset of the many religions that worship the God of Abraham.

Would the Pope deny being a Christian? He may not fit a Protestant's definition, but he certainly considers himself a follower of Christ. Unless of course he's one of the many over the centuries who merely uses the position to further his own ends. But that is also true of many others who call themselves "Christian".

Maybe he would but it's the divine authority that Catholics believe the Pope possesses which Protestants take issue. It's a fundamental difference that makes lumping Catholicism in with the many Protestant sects debatable.

[TarJak]

So Christianity is a broad church?