SH5 vs SH3 w/ GWX3 questions

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

How do you call it scripted with the work that was done, and continues to be done, by Trevally with his OHII mod? Every game is scripted to some point - it has to be because there are certain 'rules and laws' the game has to follow.

If you still call that scripted then how are you and others trying to fix/remedy this? Are you digging into the files trying to learn the game and why it does what it does? Do you ever see something in the game and think to yourself, why does it do that/why does it have to be that way? And then go and investigate it?

I think I just uncovered one of the great mysteries of SH5 with one of my newest patches - the render distance increase patch. I believe that SHI through SHIV had all units as active units in the game, it only rendered them when they were within a certain radius of the player's unit. This gave the feeling of a dynamic campaign because it was - everything was interacting/reacting with everything at any given moment in time. SH5 is a total different beast in this regard. Units are only spawned and active when they are within a certain radius of the player's unit. Outside of this radius they have their position updated, waypoints updated, etc. BUT they do not interact with ANY other units or anything for that matter. This means they never detect other units or engage other units. I think you can see why it feels like SH5 is a 'scripted' campaign now. Why did the devs do this with SH5? Your guess is as good as mine but one can infer from REing all the files and mapping/charting it all that it's because of the complexity SH5 introduces that wasn't available in ealier titles. It's so complex that the devs have tons of timers in it to make the game fluid. A certain timer when it expires has units check for contacts, another one when expired updates unit's data (they call it 'evolve') - there are timers for just about everything. If these timers weren't there the game's FPS would probably hover around 5-10. There's a lot of processing going on in this game.

This game has tremendous potential - it's really amazing what it was coded to do intentionally and unintentionally.

I'm willing to bet that if you opened the render distance to about 1/4 to 1/2 the game world using my newest patch that SH5 wouldn't feel so 'scripted' to you

I asked if SH5 can ever be taken beyond what I feel is a very nodal campaign structure. I take it your answer is "Yes." You have obviously found some ways which you believe would affect the flow of the storyline, making it more open. I figured that, if there was a way, you would be most likely to know of it.

Do I want to get involved in improving those aspects of the game I don't care for? In a word, no. I've been a programmer, and that's not how I want to spend my retirement. But I wasn't trying to place an order for mods that I would like to see somebody else build for me, either. My question wasstrightforward: Do you, as the modder most knowledgeable about the structure and potential of the game engine, think these issues can ever be addressed? Does the SH5 engine have the capability to address them? Your answer was positive. Thanks for the insight.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

I asked if SH5 can ever be taken beyond what I feel is a very nodal campaign structure. I take it your answer is "Yes." You have obviously found some ways which you believe would affect the flow of the storyline, making it more open. I figured that, if there was a way, you would be most likely to know of it.

SH5's campaign is very much like SH3 and SH4. Look at the MissionEditor app and you'll see they're almost identical between SH3, SH4, and SH5. I'm almost 99% sure the reason SH5's campaign seems so 'static' is because of the render distance from player's sub of 40000.0m limitation and how the game updates the units outside of that distance. Like I mentioned though if you set the patch variable for the render distance increase patch to 1/4 to 1/2 the game's world size and enable that patch you'll probably find the campaign 'dynamic'.

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

SH5's campaign is very much like SH3 and SH4. Look at the MissionEditor app and you'll see they're almost identical between SH3, SH4, and SH5. I'm almost 99% sure the reason SH5's campaign seems so 'static' is because of the render distance from player's sub of 40000.0m limitation and how the game updates the units outside of that distance. Like I mentioned though if you set the patch variable for the render distance increase patch to 1/4 to 1/2 the game's world size and enable that patch you'll probably find the campaign 'dynamic'.

Interesting! And very enticing!

I have a middle-weight machine and that trick might stop it dead in the water. But it might be worth finding out.

Now I have to get my SH5 mods up to date....

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

How do you call it scripted with the work that was done, and continues to be done, by Trevally with his OHII mod? Every game is scripted to some point - it has to be because there are certain 'rules and laws' the game has to follow.

thanks TDW

I asked if SH5 can ever be taken beyond what I feel is a very nodal campaign structure. I take it your answer is "Yes." You have obviously found some ways which you believe would affect the flow of the storyline, making it more open. I figured that, if there was a way, you would be most likely to know of it.

Do I want to get involved in improving those aspects of the game I don't care for? In a word, no. I've been a programmer, and that's not how I want to spend my retirement. But I wasn't trying to place an order for mods that I would like to see somebody else build for me, either. My question wasstrightforward: Do you, as the modder most knowledgeable about the structure and potential of the game engine, think these issues can ever be addressed? Does the SH5 engine have the capability to address them? Your answer was positive. Thanks for the insight.

If anyone wants info about how SH5 campaign works and can be modded - I would be more than happy to help

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by Trevally.

If anyone wants info about how SH5 campaign works and can be modded - I would be more than happy to help

Trevally, I dind not mean to diss your fine work on OHII. (Although I suppose I did so inadvertently. Sincere apologies for that.) OHII opens up the game tremendously. My question was aimed at how far the game engine can practically be modified, and how much flexibility it permits. I took it on faith that you have achieved as much is possible without changing the machine code.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

My question was aimed at how far the game engine can practically be modified, and how much flexibility it permits.

I am still amazed that SH3 was stretched as far as it was and still is , almost 10 years later. So SH5 has much more room to grow.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

My question was aimed at how far the game engine can practically be modified, and how much flexibility it permits.

There is no correct answer to this. It's a question of:
- how much time does one have to decode/understand it
- how much time does one want to put into adding code to make it do whatever they want it to do

The game engine can be made to do anything. Take Falcon 4.0 for instance - they completely changed the game engine in that game. It's all a matter of time and skill

[Tool]

"The game engine can be made to do anything. Take Falcon 4.0 for instance - they completely changed the game engine in that game. It's all a matter of time and skill "

I agree. I fly falcon, and have since the Falcon3 was out in the early 90s. BMS is incredible.. and just shows that a sim that is now 16 years old can still be cutting edge.