Alternate History.

[Admiral Halsey]

Interesting points guys and some good analysis. I'm hoping to avoid the standard alternate history scenarios and post lesser known points of divergence for you guys to ponder over.(Though tomorrow's will be one involving the US civil war it isn't a "Lee wins Gettysburg" one) Oh and thanks for the link to the site Oberon.

[Admiral Halsey]

Well it's after midnight where I live so as I promised my next scenario for you guys to have fun with. The year is 1864 and the month is October. The South is less then six months from loosing the war. Meanwhile in Mexico the French are still trying to help Maximilian establish a Mexican monarchy. In this scenario the French navy and Union navy have a skirmish that makes Napoleon III declare war on the Union. What effect would this have on the civil war and who ultimately wins? Remember to consider the year and month I have stated this scenario takes place in.

[Aktungbby]

Absolutely no effect; Faragut is ordered to extend the blockade to the Mexican ports, cutting off the French troopships and preventing refueling. Martinique, Guadeloupe, French Guiana and two French islands off Newfoundland are taken. The beast Butler, in command of New Orleans, raises new regiments of freed and mulatto blacks which the South, by this point in the war, had considered also. Lee and Grant, with Jeff Davis's blessing, agree to a temporary cessation of hostilities to coordinate in their ol' stompin' grounds of the Mexican War. Lee even separates Longstreet's corps, as at Chickamauga, to assist as old West Point comrades Generals Thomas and Sherman turn west without prompting, as surely as Patton at the Bulge. Stand Watie and his Cherokee Nation and vast numbers of paroled Confederate 'galvanized Yankees' eager to escape the POW camps along the frigid Great Lakes, who served or had forebears in the Mexican War, leap to the colours to repel the damn-froggies and their few enthusiastic Mexican allies, chafing under foreign domination. Throw in the feared Texas Rangers, always prepared for any Mexican related contingency- the Foreign Legion-and a few deals with the cutthroat Comancheros, the ghastly Comanche and Apaches, given license to rape, steal and plunder at will... ol Boney Tres, shocked at the Franco-phobia, will hafta' go away. FINIS! Lincoln had actually considered invading Canada a the beginning of his term to unite the entire country against a common foe; this is just a westerly variation...three years later. Hopefully, having united against a common foreign threat, cooler heads, Lee's in particular, as Generalissimo of the South, could prevail before a resumption of domestic hostilities.

[Admiral Halsey]

I remember reading somewhere about Lincoln's plan for invading Canada. Considering how early it was in the war I doubt we could have actually won if he had done so.(Grant and Sherman were complete unknowns at at that point.)

[Catfish]

Regarding alternate history, I am just reading 'Fatherland' from Harris, heard about it long ago but never cared.
Now i got it accidentally from a friend, who had it from a library being given up.
Pretty strange to read this, but Harris seems to know his stuff from the 4-meter-gauge railroads to party internals.


This is about a fictional Germany that was not defeated during WW2 (indeed there was no WW, since England did not declare war, and France, Scandinavia, Greece, North Africa was never part of any war action, the USA being happy someone fights the communists).
Poland has been invaded, and it with parts of Russia now belong to Germany, up to the 'Moscow line'. The war against partisans and Russia is still on, in 1964.


What strikes me is how familiar some things look, when it comes to surveillance. The book is displaying the what-if in 1964 :

- Wars have always been fought for freedom

- uniforms everywhere, the military is considered as the most important thing and being admired as the best of the best, parades and commemoration days. Everyone liking real freedom and despising the good necessary wars is being looked down upon, or worse.

- people are kept under constant strain by reported and made-up terrorist attacks, and the wars being fought against rogue or villain nations allegedly supporting those terrorists. All who dare to not like the Fatherland are partisans and terrorists, the rest living in rogue states

- Security levels due to terrorist attacks in green/blue/black/red, the Security police (SiPo) running most of the surveillance in a central block, gathering information of all people via hearsay and electronic means of all kinds - certainly only few cameras and no computers to speak of in 1964

- Drones (if primitive) used for surveillance, and microphones placed everywhere (little did they know it would be even easier, with the internet)

- Angst and suspicion towards illegal aliens from the world over, acting as scapegoats for unemployment and criminal activity, thus masquerading the good old Fremdenhass, at the same time promoting this feeling by the major media

- Public requests everywhere like 'Be vigilant at all times', 'Terrorists are everywhere', 'Attention, report suspicious packages at once!, 'Terrorist alert!'

- People reading certain books and talking about it publicly (criticizing the "free" republic and surveillance) are suspicious, their dossiers being kept for later inspection.


Have not finished it yet, i wonder what drove him to write this though in 1992.

[Admiral Halsey]

I've read that one before. One of the better alternate history books IMO.