[REL] Open Horizons II

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by Trevally.

Hi guys

here is a test mission for your mines:-
http://www.4sync.com/archive/H8aqoxp-/MineTest.html

I use the chain 16m mine for OHII
this is because a floating mine will take out traffic


mine size - yes 2 to 2.5m

Yay!
And I totally need to take screenies of video of the extra-giant sea mine... Just for LOLs

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Yay!
And I totally need to take screenies of video of the extra-giant sea mine... Just for LOLs

@ Trevally

Giving the last touch-ups to the revised balloon. Mostly small texture improvements and material property settings. Work on the model and on its importing is finished.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

I saw it
I think making the chain that way will be a good idea.

Just found a good base texture for the chain among the stock files:

data\Textures\TNormal\tex\Mine_Chain.dds

[Targor Avelany]

well, here are the results....

The models load, the is no lag, the game does not crash.
Looks good too.

But....
1) I somewhere messed up with collision.. Boat just goes through the mines.
2) all of the mines are ABOVE the water. I thought that they were supposed to be kind of all over the place (under the water, tipping out)
3) And I still need to add chain. Which I will. And will move the center of the object lower, almost same as the original mines.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

well, here are the results....

The models load, the is no lag, the game does not crash.
Looks good too.

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

But....
1) I somewhere messed up with collision.. Boat just goes through the mines.

Have you added all of the below items to your model?

1. a collision model;
2. a collisionable object controller in the zon file;
3. one or more collision spheres surrounding entirely the object;
4. a damage box set to type 221 (Mines) or any other custom zone you might want to use
5. the torpedo explosion effect triggered by the assigned damage box (for Zone 221, i.e. 'old' OH's mines, it is stored in data\Library\Mine_Explosion.dat)

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

2) all of the mines are ABOVE the water. I thought that they were supposed to be kind of all over the place (under the water, tipping out)

Hehe, as usual, floatation is your Achille's heel There are chance that you need to move the vertex coordinates of your model a bit lower. Also make sure to set the its obj_hydro controller correctly

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

3) And I still need to add chain. Which I will...

I guess you are going to need some kind of trick for getting the FollowParent controller to work on a granny object

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

...And will move the center of the object lower, almost same as the original mines.

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by gap

Have you added all of the below items to your model?

1. a collision model;
2. a collisionable object controller in the zon file;
3. one or more collision spheres surrounding entirely the object;
4. a damage box set to type 221 (Mines) or any other custom zone you might want to use
5. the torpedo explosion effect triggered by the assigned damage box (for Zone 221, i.e. 'old' OH's mines, it is stored in data\Library\Mine_Explosion.dat)

I have and that is why its weird that it is not working.

Originally Posted by gap

Hehe, as usual, floatation is your Achille's heel There are chance that you need to move the vertex coordinates of your model a bit lower. Also make sure to set the its obj_hydro controller correctly

Yeah, I will be rechecking everything.

Originally Posted by gap

I guess you are going to need some kind of trick for getting the FollowParent controller to work on a granny object

Who knows. I will try for sure. Need to mess around with bones too.

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by gap

@ Trevally

Giving the last touch-ups to the revised balloon. Mostly small texture improvements and material property settings. Work on the model and on its importing is finished.

Looking forward to it

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

I have and that is why its weird that it is not working.

have you checked that everything is in its correct place?

As far as I can see from stock units, the collisionable object is usually placed on the main bone, and collision spheres are assigned to the same bone having the collision model as child. There is more freedom about damage zones, but a good part of them is usually owned by the main bone.

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Who knows. I will try for sure. Need to mess around with bones too.

I am following your progress with the maximum interest, Targor. Fingers crossed

Originally Posted by Trevally.

Looking forward to it

Work on materials is finished. I am now focusing on the damage model. Shepres and boxes are in place already and I only need to create proper zone definitions for them. The new files should be ready for download before tomorrow

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by gap

have you checked that everything is in its correct place?

As far as I can see from stock units, the collisionable object is usually placed on the main bone, and collision spheres are assigned to the same bone having the collision model as child. There is more freedom about damage zones, but a good part of them is usually owned by the main bone.

I am following your progress with the maximum interest, Targor. Fingers crossed

Thank you, gap. Hopefully I will be able to finish this all by the end of this week tops, so I don't hold Tervally back any longer. I think re-doing the collisions and messing around with bones should fix the issue with the mines not blowing up. I also, most likely, will make a very simple chain for the mine and just do it as part of .eqp attaching it to a bone (I have an excess of bones in this file, tehe).

Trial and error is my way it seems

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

I also, most likely, will make a very simple chain for the mine and just do it as part of .eqp attaching it to a bone (I have an excess of bones in this file, tehe).

I agree, eqp file is probably the best choice. By following this path you can set two mine units (with and without chain), by using the same GR2 file.

I don't know if equipments support the usage of the FollowParent controller, but probably yes. The main problem is that, provided that the chain is going to be a granny obect, you won't be able to put any controller straight on it. You can try placing the controller in a sim file, but I doubt it wold work (animation controllers are quite picky regarding their location). A possible workaround that came to my mind, is creating a dummy chain equipment as a dat object owning the appropriate controller, and linking the GR2 chain to it, through MargeCtrl and prt file.

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Trial and error is my way it seems

And it is actually the way to go, considering that the creation of GR2 units is still in its experimental phase

[Targor Avelany]

Well, tiling is not working very well in materials/textures in GR2... At least not new, not that I was able to find to edit... Eeeesh...

Spent 4 hours yesterday trying to re-edit files and import a chain into GR2.... for some horrible reason GR2 just did not like the exported from .dat chain. Just no. Broke GR2 file every single time. Which is annoying somewhat.

Also, as a note, you cannot delete subsets from collision object. If you have more than 1 subset on collision object, it will not let you.

Also, deleting some bones is possible without breaking the file. And some bones can't be. So far no patter was found, so trial and error every single time.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Well, tiling is not working very well in materials/textures in GR2... At least not new, not that I was able to find to edit... Eeeesh...

I couldn't find any example of tiled textures among stock units, and yes, I have the same problem with balloon's wires, though it is not very noticeable on them

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Spent 4 hours yesterday trying to re-edit files and import a chain into GR2.... for some horrible reason GR2 just did not like the exported from .dat chain. Just no. Broke GR2 file every single time. Which is annoying somewhat.

That is odd. Isn't the chain just an elongated rectagle/cilynder? Have you checked that the problem isn't in the GR2 file you are using as base?

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Also, as a note, you cannot delete subsets from collision object. If you have more than 1 subset on collision object, it will not let you.

Had about the same problem: GR2 Editor v 374.1 wouldn't let me to import a 1-material collision mesh in place of a 2-material one. I could delete one of the subsets manually and import the new mesh, but then the whole file was corrupted. After many attempts, I switched to v 320.1, repeated the above process, and all went flawlessy. I can upload the said version, if you don't have it

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Also, deleting some bones is possible without breaking the file. And some bones can't be. So far no patter was found, so trial and error every single time.

If memory serves me well, I had no problem deleting bones so far. The most common causes of corruption for me are bone/mesh renaming and material/texture deletion. This seems to happen more commonly with previously edited files than with 'clean' ones. Very annoying, indeed

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by gap

I couldn't find any example of tiled textures among stock units, and yes, I have the same problem with balloon's wires, though it is not very noticeable on them

Yep. I tried playing around with the tiling option in the materials, but it did not change anything. I aldo don't think it is a big deal on the chain: murky water, nobody is going to look at the chain anyhow...

Originally Posted by gap

That is odd. Isn't the chain just an elongated rectagle/cilynder? Have you checked that the problem isn't in the GR2 file you are using as base?

Oh, I'm very sure I used the same base for the chain as for the mine itself. I have about 40 GR2 file-copies from 1-40 of me subsequently saving, resaving, trying, changing and re-saving agian with various attempts and tricks Kind of a scary sight in the folder of test1.gr2, test2.gr2........ LOL

Originally Posted by gap

Had about the same problem: GR2 Editor v 374.1 wouldn't let me to import a 1-material collision mesh in place of a 2-material one. I could delete one of the subsets manually and import the new mesh, but then the whole file was corrupted. After many attempts, I switched to v 320.1, repeated the above process, and all went flawlessy. I can upload the said version, if you don't have it

I'll check if I do have that version and let you know. The problem I find is that when one editor can do something that the other can't it leads a lot of time to inability for you to continue the editing as you can no longer open the file in the ORIGINAL editor. So the flow of editing becomes extremely important. But that also can be figured out only through trial.

Originally Posted by gap

If memory serves me well, I had no problem deleting bones so far. The most common causes of corruption for me are bone/mesh renaming and material/texture deletion. This seems to happen more commonly with previously edited files than with 'clean' ones. Very annoying, indeed

It depends. For deleting I find that for some bones it is enough to move any meshes that are binded to them over somewhere temporarily. For some - no matter what you do it just breaks the file. It wont necessary break it in editor, but for example when you open it in Goblin you just wont see any meshes rendered due to some links being broken inside the file. But it opens fine!

The renaiming of bones/meshes & deleting of materials: the bane.
I found only one solid way to rename bones/meshes: HEX editor. This way puts a restriction that is extremely important: the length of the names MUST MATCH (that is why you see on my MK17 bones with like ..."0001"). But it is the only sure and good way to rename any of the bones/meshes/skeletons/models.

Material.. Ugh... Most of the time I try and use existing materials. But sometimes it is just not possible or there are extra materials that I just plainly don't need. There is one GR2 editor (I'll post the version later, have to look at it when get home) that deletes materials just fine. The file also works with no problems in Goblin. But you definately brake something, as the latest GR2 will no longer open the file, stating that material pointer is missing. So I save this procedure to the last moment.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Yep. I tried playing around with the tiling option in the materials, but it did not change anything.

Is there a tiling option among material properties? Never noticed it... and I have messed with them until yesterday

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

I aldo don't think it is a big deal on the chain: murky water, nobody is going to look at the chain anyhow...

If so, why don't you leave it as a dat object? Considering your other problem, it would make your life much easier

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Oh, I'm very sure I used the same base for the chain as for the mine itself. I have about 40 GR2 file-copies from 1-40 of me subsequently saving, resaving, trying, changing and re-saving agian with various attempts and tricks Kind of a scary sight in the folder of test1.gr2, test2.gr2........ LOL

So do I

...I am always a bit afraid to delete old file versions, even though I have more recent, working, versions... you never know.

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

I'll check if I do have that version and let you know. The problem I find is that when one editor can do something that the other can't it leads a lot of time to inability for you to continue the editing as you can no longer open the file in the ORIGINAL editor. So the flow of editing becomes extremely important. But that also can be figured out only through trial.

Fair enough

Of course I have checked that files saved with v 320.1 of GR2 editor open correctly in the latest version of TDW's tool, as well as in Goblin and in game (I will post some screenies taken in game later).

On the other hand, the balloon won't open in GR2E v 332.1 (which I use commonly for bone editing), but this has nothing to do with my editing of it in v 320.1, as the former version also refuses to open the files that you originally sent to me...

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

It depends. For deleting I find that for some bones it is enough to move any meshes that are binded to them over somewhere temporarily. For some - no matter what you do it just breaks the file. It wont necessary break it in editor, but for example when you open it in Goblin you just wont see any meshes rendered due to some links being broken inside the file. But it opens fine!

I see but, out of curiosity, what is the use of deleting a bone with a mesh attached to it, since we can't delete meshes?

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

The renaiming of bones/meshes & deleting of materials: the bane.
I found only one solid way to rename bones/meshes: HEX editor. This way puts a restriction that is extremely important: the length of the names MUST MATCH (that is why you see on my MK17 bones with like ..."0001"). But it is the only sure and good way to rename any of the bones/meshes/skeletons/models.

IIRC, the rule is using as new name a string of the same lenght as the old name. Another oddity: if I confirm the new name by clicking elsewhere in GR2 Editor's interface (moving the cursor away from the text editing field is often enough), there is an higher chance of corruption than if I confirm by pressing enter.

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Material.. Ugh... Most of the time I try and use existing materials. But sometimes it is just not possible or there are extra materials that I just plainly don't need. There is one GR2 editor (I'll post the version later, have to look at it when get home) that deletes materials just fine. The file also works with no problems in Goblin. But you definately brake something, as the latest GR2 will no longer open the file, stating that material pointer is missing. So I save this procedure to the last moment.

Keep me informed if you find that version

[gap]

Get it from here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?072kg5r9bn6tq1e

Change list:

• Meshes updated as per my description at post #4178.
• New materials: different materials created for each part/subset of the model;
• Material property setting: added light reflections to the main material, and increased reflection map's luminosity and contrast.
• Diffuse map improvement: many small corrections + slight sharpening.
• Normal map implementation: map redone and set for being rendered in game.
• GR2 files optimization: removed all the non-essential stuff still present in the files;

Todo list:

• Damage modelling: still not finished, during my last tests the game crashed when planes crashed against the rigging cable;
• AI interaction: AI planes still don't attack the balloon, and they don't try avoiding collisions with it.

The present update is fully working and, not including damage/collision controllers, should be immune from crashes. For quick testing, I have included within the same package a custom mission where five stuka's fly through (literally) a balloon barrage field of ten balloons placed at various altitudes.

I think Trevally can start placing balloons in campaign, while I work on ironing out the aforementioned limitations. A few more screen shots taken in game now:









Last: for comparison, a rare color photograph of the real thing (click to visit the source web page with HD version of the picture):