Nelson Mandela dead at 95

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

All Europeans are responsible of colonial powers' mess? Sweet!

It was Bush's fault as well.

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

It was Bush's fault as well.

Bush wasn't European?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Bush wasn't European?

Never stated he was. But these days it is always Bush's fault.

@bubbles

Purposely targeting civilians/non combatants is what, when you think about it, defines an actual terrorist from a freedom fighter etc.Tribes, by using "No taxation without representation" as a way to say the patriots who fought the American Revolution were terrrorists like Mandela once was, is just an inaccurate and invalid comparison.

Not at all, if you read the inquiry Haplo didn't read but made claims about then you get the answer.
The comparison is valid unless you are saying those Colonials who rebelled were wrong.

Mandela was an actual terrorist at one point, he served nearly 30 years of hard labor for his crimes and did change

Can you name any countries which didn't condemn the show trial?
You are correct that he did change though.

he saw the real route to change was not through terrorism, but through a peaceful political process.

Unfortunately the real route is usually a combination of the two.

Killing innocent people on purpose accomplishes nothing and takes away the legitimacy of your often legitimate arguments against the state.

Please read the Truth Commissions report. The relevant ANC document is only just over 200 pages.
As I said earlier section 6 is the most relevant but it is really worth reading the whole thing, in fact it is worth reading all the findings on all the factions.
Two of the other sections which really stand out are those on the States policy of deliberately targeting innocent civilians, and the States black flag operations deliberately murdering innocent civilians and claiming it was "terrorists" doing the murders.

Of course the dark side of Mandela's earlier life gets pushed under the rug but overall he was a great man who ended an ugly chapter in history through the proper means.

I disagree, nothing was pushed under the rug, he was very open about it. The only people who try to push it under the rug are those who know little about it, and in fairness if they know little about it then there opinions on it don't really carry any weight.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Never stated he was. But these days it is always Bush's fault.

No, now it is all Obama's fault.


But i give five Botha points to Cpt. Haplo.

(comes from my students days, where we used to give such points for people supporting repression, apartheid, and generally believing in white supremacy)