Illegal Immigrants heckle the President...he handled something in a classy manner

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Illegals took over the construction market. I worked for a large commercial paint contractor for 22 years as a estimator/project manager. In the 80's we had over 200 US employees, paid a good wage, benefits, etc. As years passed, became hard to compete. Basically a legal Mexican would open up, hire about 20% legals, 80% illegals. They saved a fortune in work comp, paid about half the wage, no taxes, unemployment, just cash under the table. I know one legal that had a trailer park, housed probably 12 people per single wide, worked them for nothing.

To stay in business, you had to fire most your workers and hire Mexican sub contractors. In our town, in the 80's, you had several large in house large contractors....they're all gone, most illegals just work out of a home garage, dump all their leftover chemicals on the ground, etc.

This happened with several non licensed skill trades, painters, drywall, framers, bricklayers, etc...

When I opened my business, I was forced to do the same, basically a paper contractor that hired subs, most were legal, just worked illegals for nothing. They're numerous ways to get around it.

There are ways around that as well. Here in MD the Officals conduct raids on suspected business owners who are hiring illegals. The business owner receives heavy fines. Enough to put them out of business in some cases. The behavior of the business owners needs to change as well. Home owners need to change their behavior. Contracting on Jose without insurance or license can be a major headache if something goes wrong. We tend to point at the illegal all the time when it is of our own doing that causes these problems.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

There are ways around that as well. Here in MD the Officals conduct raids on suspected business owners who are hiring illegals. The business owner receives heavy fines. Enough to put them out of business in some cases. The behavior of the business owners needs to change as well. Home owners need to change their behavior. Contracting on Jose without insurance or license can be a major headache if something goes wrong. We tend to point at the illegal all the time when it is of our own doing that causes these problems.

Well, like I said, most have found ways to put on the legal front, but still work illegals. I don't know of one contractor that's ever been hit, but they do hit some big corps. Fact is they really do nothing, because of politics...
I could walk into 100 businesses right now and expose it and I'm sure they know more than I do.

However, to say illegals haven't cost many US jobs is wrong. Like I said up until the mid 90's you could walk on any large construction job and still find majority of US workers with decent pay....

I think the 12 million here will get a legal status very soon, I'm seeing many in the GOP getting on board.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Well, like I said, most have found ways to put on the legal front, but still work illegals. I don't know of one contractor that's ever been hit, but they do hit some big corps. Fact is they really do nothing, because of politics...
I could walk into 100 businesses right now and expose it and I'm sure they know more than I do.

However, to say illegals haven't cost many US jobs is wrong. Like I said up until the mid 90's you could walk on any large construction job and still find majority of US workers with decent pay....

I think the 12 million here will get a legal status very soon, I'm seeing many in the GOP getting on board.

Well, when there is a raid the outcry is staggering. Certainly the illegals have taken jobs. But, the jobs I see them working are manual labor such as drywall and lawn care. Both jobs I would not like to do everyday. However, rounding up 12 million and getting buses lined up to start deporting is not feasible. It would be best to get them in the systems and paying taxes.

The GOP wants the votes. Same as the Dems work for.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Well, when there is a raid the outcry is staggering. Certainly the illegals have taken jobs. But, the jobs I see them working are manual labor such as drywall and lawn care. Both jobs I would not like to do everyday. However, rounding up 12 million and getting buses lined up to start deporting is not feasible. It would be best to get them in the systems and paying taxes.

The GOP wants the votes. Same as the Dems work for.

That's why we should secure our border first or we'll have another 12 million before long. Anyway, it's coming. The downfall of the economy did slow it some.

Yep, the GOP wants the votes now because they know it's coming....Fact is, most Mexicans I knew had more GOP beliefs than Dems.

I really don't care, just hate the politics and confusion of it. Most I worked with are nice, hard workers and decent family people....and they have some beautiful women......

[CaptainMattJ.]

Originally Posted by Armistead

That's why we should secure our border first or we'll have another 12 million before long. Anyway, it's coming. The downfall of the economy did slow it some.

Yep, the GOP wants the votes now because they know it's coming....Fact is, most Mexicans I knew had more GOP beliefs than Dems.

I really don't care, just hate the politics and confusion of it. Most I worked with are nice, hard workers and decent family people....and they have some beautiful women......

Well, looking realistically at it, we can barely support the 12 million we already have. We dont really have the jobs, the assistance, the space in our education system, ect. Not to mention the criminals who get through, and all these cholo gangbangers that started popping up.

But i never really had the problem with the people themselves. They are, for the most part, hard-working families like the rest of us. I do like the increase in mexican food places ive seen pop up . And yes oh yes do they have some BEAUTIFUL woman .

[Stealhead]

Actually the rate of illegal immigration has been dropping steadily since 2009 the year after the economy went to hell.That proves that taken as whole the illgals are in fact not taking jobs in most cases that a legal immigrant is usually wiling to perform.

http://home.comcast.net/~markthoma/G...gal.3.4.06.jpg

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...redictor/?_r=0

My point is that these people have been here for decades and they really are not taking that many jobs that others really want to perform.In the end even with your example it is not the illegal to blame fro taking over the painting industry in your region it is the fault of Us citizens who are business owners choosing to hire them and of customers to use contractors that employ illegals.


Americans want things that contradict each other they want to pay the least amount of money for something which forces companies (in order to maintain profit margins) to pay legal workers low wages or to pay illegal workers even lower wages seeing that there is such little real punishment for employing illegals many companies choose this route and what do they care so long as they are making money it does not matter to them.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Actually the rate of illegal immigration has been dropping steadily since 2009 the year after the economy went to hell.That proves that taken as whole the illgals are in fact not taking jobs in most cases that a legal immigrant is usually wiling to perform.

http://home.comcast.net/~markthoma/G...gal.3.4.06.jpg

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...redictor/?_r=0

My point is that these people have been here for decades and they really are not taking that many jobs that others really want to perform.In the end even with your example it is not the illegal to blame fro taking over the painting industry in your region it is the fault of Us citizens who are business owners choosing to hire them and of customers to use contractors that employ illegals.


Americans want things that contradict each other they want to pay the least amount of money for something which forces companies (in order to maintain profit margins) to pay legal workers low wages or to pay illegal workers even lower wages seeing that there is such little real punishment for employing illegals many companies choose this route and what do they care so long as they are making money it does not matter to them.

It doesn't work that way. Sure, some hired them, many didn't. It was when legal Mexicans worked them in mass. That made competition impossible among others and slowly you took part in it or went out of business. The fact is when you can get something as good for the cheap....people do it.

For years professional legal companies fought it, tried to get laws passed, but govt did nothing. In the end, you had no choice but to partake of the process.

The company I worked for was the oldest and one of the largest in the SE, like at one time we had our own small planes to fly to jobs. We followed laws, regulations, good wages. As years passed, overhead had to be cut way back. It got to the point the owners decided they wouldn't go the route to play the game, couldn't compete and closed down....I lost a job of 23 years.

And trust me, when govt wanted to enforce laws or go looking, they went after the big guys, not the numerous garage ran businesses working 90% of the illegals. See, we had to play by the rules, but couldn't stay in business.

Lost that job, it was all I knew, so I opened my own business and played the game and made great money until the economy tanked.....

[CaptainMattJ.]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Well, when there is a raid the outcry is staggering. Certainly the illegals have taken jobs. But, the jobs I see them working are manual labor such as drywall and lawn care. Both jobs I would not like to do everyday. However, rounding up 12 million and getting buses lined up to start deporting is not feasible. It would be best to get them in the systems and paying taxes.

The GOP wants the votes. Same as the Dems work for.

Its easy to say that when you already have/had a career. For a student trying to start his life and not wanting to put himself in nearly a hundred thousand dollars of debt, any job will do. We need manual labor jobs for CITIZENS more than ever. This isn't the 70s anymore. Manual labor and entry position jobs are rarer than they've ever been before. And Mr. Jose with his 6 anchor babies undermining the minimum wage sure as hell isn't helping. In a country that has decided that public education be a low priority, and the cost to attend college has exploded far past what inflation has, getting a job is the difference between 100,000 dollars in debt and maybe 50,000 dollars in debt. NOT TO MENTION THE ILLEGALS ARE GETTING PRIORITY REGISTRATION AND THEIR OWN FREAKING SCHOLARSHIPS, AS WELL AS ACCESS TO FAFSA AND FEDERAL LOANS!! What does Mr. white citizen college student get? The shaft.

If amnesty does come, which i GUARANTEE it will, it better come with a sealed border. All that these illegals are doing is flooding the education system with their kids, and undermining and lowering the standard of living by working for pennies, while also flooding our welfare system and medicaid assistance because they work for so little. Give them citizenship and then ACTUALLY enforce the damned laws we have. We simply cannot support another flood of 12 million people in our already meager system.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ.

Its easy to say that when you already have/had a career. For a student trying to start his life and not wanting to put himself in nearly a hundred thousand dollars of debt, any job will do. We need manual labor jobs for CITIZENS more than ever. This isn't the 70s anymore. Manual labor and entry position jobs are rarer than they've ever been before. And Mr. Jose with his 6 anchor babies undermining the minimum wage sure as hell isn't helping. In a country that has decided that public education be a low priority, and the cost to attend college has exploded far past what inflation has, getting a job is the difference between 100,000 dollars in debt and maybe 50,000 dollars in debt. NOT TO MENTION THE ILLEGALS ARE GETTING PRIORITY REGISTRATION AND THEIR OWN FREAKING SCHOLARSHIPS, AS WELL AS ACCESS TO FAFSA AND FEDERAL LOANS!! What does Mr. white citizen college student get? The shaft.

If amnesty does come, which i GUARANTEE it will, it better come with a sealed border. All that these illegals are doing is flooding the education system with their kids, and undermining and lowering the standard of living by working for pennies, while also flooding our welfare system and medicaid assistance because they work for so little. Give them citizenship and then ACTUALLY enforce the damned laws we have. We simply cannot support another flood of 12 million people in our already meager system.

No one claimed this is the 70's. You are assuming to much of Jose and the anchor babies. How may blacks/white alike suck on the government tit? And, these illegals who are getting FREE scholarships come at a cost...to them. First, these kids are legal. Born in the US. Second, their parents must show proof of paying taxes. Therefore they are productive members of our society. The student who is legally here born to illegal parents can get a loan. Just like any other legal citizen. They do not make the rules. They live by them. Mr. White Citizen gets the same loans. As far as priority, other races have gotten priority as well.

Every generations has it issues and problems when it comes to employment. I have yet to see any graduate college and walk into a $100k/year job. If that is what a college student expects I have some news for them. College loans have been out there for decades. Every student has had to deal with it to some degree.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ.

Its easy to say that when you already have/had a career. For a student trying to start his life and not wanting to put himself in nearly a hundred thousand dollars of debt, any job will do. We need manual labor jobs for CITIZENS more than ever. This isn't the 70s anymore. Manual labor and entry position jobs are rarer than they've ever been before. And Mr. Jose with his 6 anchor babies undermining the minimum wage sure as hell isn't helping. In a country that has decided that public education be a low priority, and the cost to attend college has exploded far past what inflation has, getting a job is the difference between 100,000 dollars in debt and maybe 50,000 dollars in debt. NOT TO MENTION THE ILLEGALS ARE GETTING PRIORITY REGISTRATION AND THEIR OWN FREAKING SCHOLARSHIPS, AS WELL AS ACCESS TO FAFSA AND FEDERAL LOANS!! What does Mr. white citizen college student get? The shaft.

If amnesty does come, which i GUARANTEE it will, it better come with a sealed border. All that these illegals are doing is flooding the education system with their kids, and undermining and lowering the standard of living by working for pennies, while also flooding our welfare system and medicaid assistance because they work for so little. Give them citizenship and then ACTUALLY enforce the damned laws we have. We simply cannot support another flood of 12 million people in our already meager system.

Yeah, illegals get FAFSA and grants plus scholarships that should be going to legal citzens. Last week one of the nurses at my doctors office and I were discussing health care, he does not choose to buy it and he mentioned he voted for Obama because he supports the Dream Act. Yay, your son and daughter have to compete not only with Americans for scholastic support but also illegal aliens. I wonder what would happen if I sent my child to a Mexican high school and told her to apply for scholarships...?


No, sorry, I think if the current crop of 12~15 million illegals get to stay, and consequently bring in another 20~30 million family members when they are granted amnesty, it's only fair to the rest of the people below the rio grande to give them a shot and coming in as well. Why should we restrict only those who have not entered illegally?

Obviously the democrats want the votes, may as well close the book and let them proceed. Republicans are on the way out, I do not see any likelihood that suddenly millions of Americans will throw off their food stamps, disability income, WIC benefits, Medicare, welfare, etc and demand to earn their self-respect. I learned a lot about people while selling motorcycles: people come in, it's my job to help them find a bike and make them a good deal. They fill out a credit app, and finance submits it to a bank. Of course, I go over the app before we submit it, to make sure they did not leave anything blank or skip something (which people do all the time). So, I see their income, years on the job, etc. People who cannot make their rent or car notes on time with their welfare or SS disability will still try to get a loan for a luxury like a bike.

[les green01]

I got Native American in me and proud of it if you care to look at history you will find out it was the white man who was the savage,hell it was the french and englandish who caught the so call savage to scalp as proof a enemy as fallen.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Originally Posted by les green01

I got Native American in me and proud of it if you care to look at history you will find out it was the white man who was the savage,hell it was the french and englandish who caught the so call savage to scalp as proof a enemy as fallen.

I can see any Native American getting POed about this issue and rightfully so. As for the white man calling Native American's savages, that's what the Europeans at the time seemed to have called any native culture that wasn't up to their "standards of civilization", just ask the Aborigines and the Maoris. But even so that's no excuse for what European settlers and later Americans did to the Native Americans and their way of life.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by les green01

I got Native American in me and proud of it if you care to look at history you will find out it was the white man who was the savage,hell it was the french and englandish who caught the so call savage to scalp as proof a enemy as fallen.

I beg to differ scalping is a body mutilation act that has been around for thousands of years and occurred in many cultures.People do bad things to each other.

They have found bodies of Native American skulls that date back to a time before the whites where present that show evidence that the scalp was removed.

One of my distant relatives got his tongue and part of his throat cut out by some Comanches in Texas(I have seen photos of the man taken late in his life he has the obvious scars). Of course whites did the same to the Comanche.

It is more accurate to say that any group of people is capable of mutilation of ones enemies it is a human trait(unfortunately) not a trait of anyone group.The way I see it such actions are an individual choice however warfare is a group activity so when one person does something some of his cohorts will be more likely to imitate that act and of course the enemy when they see what has been to one of theirs will want to get revenge.

Did the Europeans in some cases encourage and even pay for scalps sure they did where some native Americans also performing mutilation acts upon Europeans and enemy tribes sure they where did every single tribe scalp enemies I highly doubt it.But I have no doubt that they had encounters with other tribes who did long before anyone came along to have any influence one way or the other.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Yeah, illegals get FAFSA and grants plus scholarships that should be going to legal citzens.

I'm not sure how it works in TX but the Mexicans getting FAFSA in my neck of the woods are not illegal. These are kids that from our own laws are legal as they were born on US soil to parents that are illegals. They then are no different than other races that get extra goodies as a result of just being a particular race. Even then I'm not sure they are getting extra goodies for just being. Certainly the pie gets smaller.